Ls cooling

[Bebop]

Not all "spal" fans are the same. Blade type makes a big difference apparently. Also, the Spal fans that griffin uses are the low profile motors, CBR specifically told us "they would never use those models".

Definitely not all Spal fans are the same.

Spal fan brushed lineup:

https://www.a1electric.com/catalog/cat_spal.htm

I encourage you to read through the tech info on this website, it's very useful.

Some info on the brushless lineup :

https://wizardcooling.com/spal-brushless-fans/

I don't have the money for these but they are the absolute ****.

If you say so........ I've got another buddy swapping from a "nice" griffin to a CBR because it will not keep his water temps in check. Good luck with that theory.

What core does the CBR radiator you are using come with ? Standard or do you get the extra PWR option ? What makes the CBR stuff so superior in your opinion?

 

[wizzo]

What core does the CBR radiator you are using come with ? Standard or do you get the extra PWR option ? What makes the CBR stuff so superior in your opinion?

Standard core.

What makes it more superior:
CBR uses thicker material aluminum. The way a number of guys are mounting radiators with weld on pucks, which I don't prefer, this helps quite a bit with leaks. I've seen a number of the mounting pucks tear away or out of the radiator tanks. The over all quality of the CBR is second to none.

All I can go off of is what what I've seen in my own experiences. Actual improvements I've seen when going from one product to another. This isn't internet hear say or CFM data on some chart.

Is the CBR radiator more expensive? Yes. But when you're building a buggy and doing your best to build the nicest product, while not cutting corners, cooling is one place that you defiantly shouldn't cut corners and buy the best you can.

This is only my opinion. Yall do whatever you want.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Imo Griffin is kinda cheap. I've seen cbr, Ron Davis, afco and all look and feel more heavy duty. Personally I over build and over spend on alot of stuff. To stop as much failure as possible. But that said I'm always shopping for what's new and improved. Products get better daily. And I want the best in most logical cases. I want my stuff to work with no worry of ever having high temps. I am currently running good temps. But I want better. Why I'm making changes.

Anyone running aftermarket water pumps?

If you change tstat to 160 is there any issues with factory temp sensor ? What is a 160 doing or helping in our type of builds?

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[Bebop]

The 160 deg thermostat will let your cooling system start cooling the engine earlier and bring the temperatures to a lower point before shutting the flow of coolant off. I do have one in my buggy.

It doesn't interfere with the temperature sender as they are 2 complete different systems and have nothing to do with each other.

I don't see the need for a performance water pump as many high hp applications are more than ok with a stock pump.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Ahh ok got it. Appreciate that.

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[mrdrinksalil]

If you change tstat to 160 is there any issues with factory temp sensor ? What is a 160 doing or helping in our type of builds?

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The LS cooling system differs from SBC motors in that the thermostat is at the inlet of the pump (coolest point), not the outlet of the manifold (hottest point). Coolant flow over the thermostat comes through the heater core circuit (that many of us block off) and/or through the bypass check valve on the back of the thermostat. The bypass always bypasses some coolant to open the thermostat OR bypasses full pump flow if the thermostat is closed. The stock 187ish thermostat only starts to open at 187. If you can start to open at 160 it gives the coolant a head start to circulate and cool.

When the thermostat IS open it's combining with heater core flow (possibly blocked off) and cool water from the radiator. If your radiator is cooling better or more than full open temp of your thermostat, the returning coolant is fighting to close the thermostat. IMO this is why some have better performance NOT capping the heater core circuit and running the loop hose.

Clear as mud?


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[cbrjeeper]

Now that's some good tech.
Clear as mud

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[mrdrinksalil]

Moved the temperature sensor to the passenger head today. Passenger head reads 6-12 degrees cooler.

Idle temperatures

181 Driver Head
174 Passenger Head

Getting after it temperatures

229 Driver Head
217 Passenger Head

The fans that came on my Griffin Combo 31x15.5 radiator are 12" low profile SPALs rated 1722CFM total airflow.

Going to upgrade one of the fans for now with a Maradyne M122K that should bring total airflow around 2400CFM and see how that does. The M122K should be a direct bolt in for my current shroud and flow 1548CFM each.


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[cbrjeeper]

Very good. Lmk what happens. I've purchased a Ron Davis rad and a prw pump. Won't get rad for a couple weeks. They also recommend the 16in spal unit for my set up. 'I currently run'.. will See how it acts.

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[cbrjeeper]

I will add that speaking to ron davis , prw, and flowkooler . All asked if I was running radiator in rear of buggy. And all highly recommended to run a higher flow water pump for rear mount set ups. Front mount they said not 100 necessary unless you have a bunch of stuff blocking cooling system. All 3 companies had very similar questions and recommendations.

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[redneckengineered]

I will add that speaking to ron davis , prw, and flowkooler . All asked if I was running radiator in rear of buggy. And all highly recommended to run a higher flow water pump for rear mount set ups. Front mount they said not 100 necessary unless you have a bunch of stuff blocking cooling system. All 3 companies had very similar questions and recommendations.

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They need to stick to building radiators.

 

[i_sent_it]

I will add that speaking to ron davis , prw, and flowkooler . All asked if I was running radiator in rear of buggy. And all highly recommended to run a higher flow water pump for rear mount set ups. Front mount they said not 100 necessary unless you have a bunch of stuff blocking cooling system. All 3 companies had very similar questions and recommendations.

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They need to stick to building radiators.

So you think a upgraded water pump is needed?

 

[cbrjeeper]

Well all three of those companies are in California and work with some of the biggest race teams out west that mostly run radiator set ups in the back. To me it makes sense that the coolant has to travel alot further. A higher flow definitely cant hurt. I know alot of us that run stock pumps and, haven't had alot of issues. But a better well made pump imo is worth the better cooling capacity/capability.

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[wizzo]

Stock water pump has worked just fine for me for 8+ years. My opinion is buy a quality radiator and you'll be just fine.

If you went to a higher flow water pump, what would you do about thermostat? That would be a restriction right? Did they have a suggestion for addressing that? Just wondering.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Prw said no high flow stat needed as they still have cross over tube.
Flowkooler said high flow stat needed . They do not have cross over tubes.
Ron davis says they run meizer pumps$$$ and I did not ask about stat.

Alot of Products coming to the market over last few years that alot of other industries that build ls stuff are using hi flow pumps. All the performance part sites offer a high flow pump of some sort. I dont get to technical with explaining but , with the world wide interweb offering days of literature of opinions. I called manufacturers and some of the shops/sites that sell these products and 100% of them use and like them. Yes they are trying to sell product but there is some good info out and a reason some of the big builders are using them. In my opinion after a beat down you will cool quicker and you will add pressure throughout the system creating a more equal system less steam pockets and or hot spots. It may not be 100 noticeable or it may be a oh **** moment. I will let you kno my experience. I will be changing my system 100% 1 part at a time to see what is and makes the biggest difference in my buggy.

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[cbrjeeper]

My stock pump has worked decent as well over the years. They are cheaply made though. Others I mentioned are all made in USA with much better process, , castings, tolerances, and parts used.

Stock 14 bolt shafts lasted since the 80s
Broke em once and HAD to get a better set.. Mark Williams ftw... lol

Wizzo plug.. braaaap

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[redneckengineered]

I just think if I was upgrading cooling the "high flow" pump would be the absolute last thing I would do. I'm not even sure they're necessary at all in a non-full race application. I've also seen stock LS water pumps go 300k+ so not too worried about the quality. If you do go high flow do it last so you can see if it makes any difference and let us know.

My wife's buggy has a 540hp LS3, stock pump, with rear mounted 31x16 CBR and 12" fans (not the 14"s that typically come with that model) and 160 degree stat and if she had any more cooling I don't think the engine would even register on the gauge :****:

 

[redneckengineered]

I could actually be convinced that a high flow pump would be needed in a situation where you may be wanting to run bigger lines such as -20 vs -16 which is the size most run. Then you're making up for the loss of pressure due to the larger diameter lines. In my mind that would have more of an impact vs running the radiator in the rear. Interesting discussion nevertheless.

Stock 14 bolt shafts lasted since the 80s
Broke em once and HAD to get a better set.. Mark Williams ftw... lol

Wizzo plug.. braaaap

I like the way you think.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Re: Ls cooling

I'm 500ish hp. Running decent temps. Stock pump is prob 6 years old and started to leak out of the weep hole. Griffin rad has a pin hole at top of rad (repairable). 180 t stat is month old. Spal 16 fan does its job. So I'm going to change all of it. I have dual 11in spal set up coming, ron davis rad, prw high flow pump, 160 stat goin in.

TStat change first.. "tomorrow". And I'll ride it all weekend to get some info.

New Rad with current 16in fan on it next, in a few weeks .

Then change to the dual fan with new rad.

Water pump last.

I figure we need some new tech and cooling systems can be easy and then again they can be a pia. I happen to need to make some changes and I'm willing to spend, and do it. Lots of new parts out on the market for our sport since the hammers have shed a huge light on things.
New parts get designed the sport gets better and stronger we start to break less. That's how we have all gotten to these full tube chassis with ls motors. Most of us started with jeeps . Parts evolve and get better over time. We shall see !!!

I really expect in my situation with a front mount rad, the best cooling mod will be the radiator along with better fans. I dont expect to gain much cooling from pump rather than a better pressurized system and quicker cool downs possibly. But I do believe a higher flow pump would be beneficial to a rear mount set up. It's a long ways to travel. Its gotta help with a system that large to remove steem and bleed the system better over all and keep it pressurized.

But I really have no idea. I will let you know how things play out for my rig.


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[wizzo]

Report back. Thanks for the tech. Glad you're making changes one at a time to see what changes occur.