Scale Class Discussion WARCRC

[hotwheels000]

My thoughts ...

Basics are a "scale class" rig has to adhere to 2.2 classification.

Then have a "scale" scoring done by judges ...
* prototype
subtract for "realism" to a specific prototype (aka the model is a twin to your 1:1 wheeler)
add when the wheelbase, tracwidth, tire size, etc aren't even close to a scale rig.
* steering
add for non-frame mouted steering
subtract for a steering wheel that moves :redneck:
* suspension
add for non-scale suspension (e.g 4-links on a F150 or leafs on a buggy)
* Interior
subtract for seats, driver/passenger, steering, guages, etc
add if none present
* Misc
subtract for lights, winch, hilift, etc

Have a "score sheet" (with additional plusses and minuses ...) that makes it easy for judging.

Now, have the "scale" rigs run the 2.2 course. If someone has an uber-detailed rig, they can take penalties for "bypassing" an obstacle (rather than destory their rig in a roll). This means all the 2.2 rigs run the 2.2 course scale or not (aka no extra course, no added runs). Could even limit people to choose the rig they wanna run (aka can;t run one rig for 2.2 comp and then the same driver run another rig on the course in "scale class").

Total the scale points with the course points ... If your rig sucks on the 2.2 course then it better do well in "scale judging". I also expect the rigs that do well on the course might have non-scale elements that hurt them.

I expect a nice balance of form and function would be the best (and seems to me what the class should be striving for).

Here's my case in point ...
I'm building a "scale" scorpion. It's as close to 1/8 scale as I can get with the chassis/body, it'd be running ~20" wheels with ~40" rubber, and a reasonable wheelbase (100") and tracwidth(~88").
I want it to be capable of running a 2.2 course, so the ride height is a bit to high, and I'll probably mount the servo on the TLT axle.
I'd like to deck it out so it can be "scale" (e.g. interior, occupents, accessiories, etc).
I don't expect to ever win a 2.2 comp, but hope it can be capable. So that's the balance I'm working towards.

Great ideas

For me personally I dont like the points added or subtracted. Either allow it or not (KISS). I dont want to build a shelf quenn that I am afraid of busting up so all the little do dads for points isnt for me. I will be adding scale realism to my rig but it should not be judged on that. I dont think this should be a car show.

There is no way I am in favor of pick 1 rig to run on the coarse.....hands down it would be my comp rig. If the scaler becomes a toy to bash thats cool but I am competeing and the scaler doesnt have a chance against a comp rig.


Just my opinion

 

[I B RACIN]

Let me start by saying that I think that scale trucks are cool, and the time guys put into making them look like 1-1s is priceless..

I will not be putting one together anytime soon, with that said here are my views.

coils or leafs, some 1-1s have coils

frame mounted servo, battery mounted in frame

tires that fit in the wheel base, fender triming would be aloud.
tires can not stick out more than 1/2 the tire width with or with out widers.
tires that look like something that a 1-1 would have.

my view is, its like a truck that you would drive to work all week then wheel on the weekends

scale buggys would have to have there own class, because they are not street legal. and that would be the comp class's

I B..

 

[Tanis]

I like a lot of the things said so far. Another thing that kind of defines scale for me is... if you have to look twice to tell it is RC, then it is pretty scale. 1 look at Brit's tlt and you can tell it is NOT scale.:haha:
Keep the thoughts coming guys.

 

[ronbeck]

I more interested in a scale biased class right. But with have being said I a not a big fan of chassis mounted steering..

Things I would love to see:

Use the RCC scale forum guidelines
Wheels in the wheel wells,
Maybe 1/2" of the tire allowed to stick out from body
Elecs on the chassis
No penalties for skipping under water gates
Trail course more then a crawler course
And have a panel/group to judge if the rig could be seen at the local mud/rock trail spot

And then work toward a tighter set of rules if/when there is a nation class set. Like what we did with our comp rules.


Just my tardy to the party thoughts....:hi:

 

[hotwheels000]

my view is, its like a truck that you would drive to work all week then wheel on the weekends

scale buggys would have to have there own class, because they are not street legal. and that would be the comp class's

I B..

I like this part, it may sound odd coming from a guy that was pushing his sniper tuber as scale,which it was, but it would not fit in my new beliefs of a scale class machine

Devlin

 

[BlueMonster1]

Well, it's about time this finally came up!

My thoughts...

leaf or spring, whatever is appropriate
Tires in wheel well
up to 1/2 tires outside body
realistic tires
realistic height

As far as servo and bttery mounting, I don't care either way. However, both of my scalers hav full bumper to bumper frame rails, leaf springs with springless shocks and chassis mounted steering.

Terrain? Not crawling, that's what the comp trucks are for. I like trail runs, light water or mud, branches/roots, etc. If you wouldn't expect a 1:1 ti do something without serious damage, then we shouldn't expect the scaler to do it either.

How are points awarded? Gate clearing would be one, but I don't think I like there being a "race" of ANY kind. A time limit, sure, but only so it doesn't take forever to complete a course.

 

[BlueMonster1]

Also, if something comes into quetion, it is the burdon of the driver to prove it's legal. If you have a Bronco body and you can find a picture of a similar year Bronco with a three link suspension or whtever has come into question, then it's legal.

 

[BlueMonster1]

 

[ronbeck]

What about that pimpy k2 3short?

 

[I B RACIN]

I like this part, it may sound odd coming from a guy that was pushing his sniper tuber as scale,which it was, but it would not fit in my new beliefs of a scale class machine

Devlin

LOL.....:haha:

I B..

 

[BlueMonster1]

The K2 has problem of being a 4-link suspension and not true chassis rails, it has side plates, if that is going to ake a difference. I doubt it will.

 

[Craig cw]

hey fellas,
I thaught i'd add my 0.2 cents. I'm running the k2-3L that is four link,but has frame mounted bumpers and soon will have a frame mounted servo.Tires stick out less than a 1/2". I buolt this truck to run the scale class and if most of the rules you guys are suggesting come in too play then it's not a legal truck.I dont think justin's "killer" chev would be either.
I personally think the scale class is more for fun than a comp. and if the truck looks scale and moves like a scale rig.We should just run e'm and have a good time.
Another idea could be a max amount of articulation measured by a ramp to see if fit the scale bill.

just my .02 cents

 

[BlueMonster1]

I agree.

I think the no reverse rules and all that crap made comping less fun.

If there were just a bunch of us with scalers playing follow the Leader, I would be perfectly happy with that.

Something to do between runs!

 

[hotwheels000]

Another idea could be a max amount of articulation measured by a ramp to see if fit the scale bill.

just my .02 cents

The ramp would be great and allow people to run whatever suspension type they would like, I still like the idea of leafs or springs,no 4 link, but the limited articulation surte would work.
I would have to change my truckover to something other than 4 link ,it is the MFM chassis(I think thats what it is called) ,the one from tammys

Craig this truck is going to get us confused I have had 2 people ask me if it is your truck already

 

[grover]

Yup. I am sure glad I started this thread.:flipoff:
No seriously it is pretty much the same sory nationwide. Lots of people like the scale look but performance is the problem. I look tube frame buggys Torry wants them out. I love four link some only want leafs. Everyone wants frame mounted batts and servos but thats little concelation if only half want to compete with them at all.

For the half that dont care about competing with them, you have it easy just get together with your scalers and have fun.

I think personally I will build for the ORCRC rules and compete down there until we get our heads around this more, because it appears we are only getting further apart at this time.

Chad-

 

[Toyofast]

I would have to change my truckover to something other than 4 link ,it is the MFM chassis(I think thats what it is called) ,the one from tammys

Not that I am a member of WARCRC, nor have I attended any competitions up your way but.....Being that ORCRC has been doing the scale thing for quite a bit now I'd like to jump in here with some of my brain bits...

Chassis- Most of the rigs running in the Scale Class in the ORCRC comps run the MFM chassis or ones that are nearly the same, either made of aluminum or steal. They work and can appear to look scale if done right.

Tires- Currently we limit it to Mashers as the tallest. Personally I'd like everyone to run Imex Swamp Dawgs. They are cheap, easy to get & who doesn't love boggers?:redneck: This would also keep any tire complaints down to zero.

Bodies- Must have a body, lexan, hard plastic... no tubed out rigs. A flatbed is okay as long as the body/cab section is all there.

Width- This can get touchy IMO. Not all bodies are the same width. Just make a set max width just like USRCCA has for 2.2's, 12.5" wide. Set the Scale width a bit narrower, like 11.5" max. Then you'll have 90% of builds falling into the "box". Or go a bit narrower. You need to make it so in 3 months if someone decides to buy a new body, they don't have to completly rebuild their truck.

Scale class isn't about rock crawling only. Sure it will have a big part in it but don't limit courses to only rocks. Scale rigs are Trail rigs or Trials based rigs. Build the trucks to suit the area in which you live. PNW requires a rig to be able to handle water, mud and sand. If money is an issue, don't build one or build it over time. There are lots of water proof ESC's out there. Or seal up a non-waterproof ESC, it's easy.

Go have some trail running for fun. Build some bridges, log ramps and mud pits. Scale class is about fun and being able to drive through anything in your way.

Just my .00001 worth coming from someone in the South of the Worshington boarder:hi:




Trail running is by far the BEST!!!!!!

 

[426rider]

The K2 has problem of being a 4-link suspension

The Jeep tj has a four link suspension stock. Just short links.

Right now I will not be building one but it is interesting to me. I like the general rules: frame rails, frame mounted steering, "stock"like suspension(leaf, link,torsion included) and width, tires in wheelwells, full bodys.

 

[Todd1803]

Toyofast - Thanks for the input, it's always welcome. You guys do seem to rule the scale world, after all.


The more I think about this, the more I've decided that scale class rules are not something I'm going to be too concerned about at this time. Not that I won't throw my opinion into the mix (regardless of if it's asked for :redneck: ), but it's just not high on my list right now.

I'm pretty sure others are thinking this, but I'm going to come out and say it - We need to get better at managing a comp with two classes before we try to add a third.

And I will still build my scale truck, because I've always wanted one. If it never makes a run in competition, I will be totally ok with that. I already have two other trucks for that. The scale truck's single purpose in life will be to provide building and playing enjoyment, and look cool. Anything else will be sugar.

 

[Toyofast]

Having the servos mouted to the chassis is a must. Batteries in/on chassis needs to be a must. Waterproofing needs to be a must. Fun is a must.

Our scale class is about having fun without all the serious comp stress. Make rules that are very, very basic. Keep them simple. Make sure everyone can have fun, even if their rig sucks.

You'll have to have a list of required ways for them to be built but that's easy to follow.

 

[grover]

Thanks toyo I agree on all counts!

What if you ran scale class not as a comp but a trail run. You set up a line that a group of trucks needs to negotiate without outside help(no giants reaching down and moving the trucks) and see if the group of trucks can make it. It would be like fallow the leader and king of the hill all in one.

So in essence you are running what you brung(so long as it has frame, batt on frame, and servo on frame, and a scale look) and helping out the other guys in your group to get to the end. Straps and winches may become the norm on trucks like these.

My thoughts on this came from a visit to the tacoma history museum where they are currentlly hosting a model train exabition. The club members would never touch a train on the tracks only in the train yard/switching room. I thought if scale trucks were being watched/filmed how cool it would be to see fluid uncut action were trucks traversed a course and you could not tell they were toys. Kinda like the pic thread by toyo in the snow.

What are your thoughts on this gentlemen?

Chad-