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suspension unloading

both the same

I think because of the use of the transfer case I'm doubling the offet that the rear output normally sees, this doubles the amount of torque lean that any normal drivetrain would see. I.E. I have the transaxle offset from motor centerline, plus the transfer case offset from the transaxle center line.

This added with airshocks makes it act weird - couple that with my lack of airshock knowledge and practically 0 spring rate in them right now.

think I'll bump em up to 250psi - suck the winches down to ride hieght and try again - then I'll remove pressure, then shocks, then drain some oil out and try to reset my ride height at a higher pressure.
 
wouldn't change anything for this problem anyway any reason to do it though? Every vehicle I've seen has them on the same sides and I've heard opposing sides causes weird effects at speed.

I'd like to understand the problem fully before changing anything - I don't have time for tinkering I need to fix it right once. That means: please be prepared to support suggestions with facts and theories

I posted my theory about the offsets in the drivetrain and the low spring rate - this is my guess, sound stupid or what?

(For Now) I've ruled out suspension geometry - it doesn't jack from antisquat - it leans. One side compresses, other extends. Bad suspension geometry would cause the entire front or rear to do one thing not half and half. Because of this I think the suspension is fairly nuetral.

I'm trying not to sound like a know-it-all here and scare away advice cause I definitely have ZERO experience with this. I admit I'm a complete dumbass on this subject. My suspension design was just a guess too and may be wrong. just tryin to bounce ideas back and forth while I can't be working on it and get some idea where to start tweaking
 
Travis, you definitely don't have enought Nitro in them, bump it up to 250. I'd start there, and then if anything add some oil vs. remove it. On all that we've mounted here on Jeeps (Heavier vehicles....I'd hope) we've had to add quite a bit of oil to them.

Note: These have all been on Fox 2.0's No experience with King Shocks or the amount of oil they come with from factory.
 
I'd like to here more opinions on shock tuning

most agree I need more nitrogen - but I already have 6" of shock showing at 200-210psi
the average i've heard from everyone is 250-300 is about normal for the engine side of the chassis
But how do I get 250psi without going higher? I went from 200-210 and it added about 1"

the shocks had tags on em that said the oil level and valving - Erin told me we still have these, I'll try to find it. But Sonny is pretty sure that there is 340cc's of oil in em already
 
rockwild said:
But how do I get 250psi without going higher?
Click to expand...

Center strap to ride height.

Use your winches to see where is stops leaning. It will stop at some point. Play with front and rear and see where your starting point is on limiting.
 
More oil will make your spring rate more progressive to combat the effect add about 30cc at a time. Your pressure seems to be close just guessing on the weight of the vehicle.
I do not think it is your drive line causing this I will call you to see if I can help later.
 
Suspension. You'll be surprised what an inch or two adjustment on your links will make. I am sure you have burned in the links and it would be a pain to adjust , but I think it might be something to consider. By adding oil to your shocks or increasing spring rate you rsetting your rig up to perform in a specific situation you need to balance your rig out making it useful in all situations. Example, increase spring rate on left side will work when on flat ground but put your rig on an incline with alean to the right and your going to roll alot easier than if your shocks were balanced. like I stated in my earlier post I had the same problem. put my rig in gear and the rear would raise about 4 inches. turn to th e left and my front tire would raise. Flex out on a wall and the tire that should stay on the ground would actually raise to the same height as the other tire due to the suspension being out of whack. As soon as I would let off the gas my tire would drop to the ground. But with all that anti squat I was a hill climbing mo fo.
 
haven't had time to try anything yet

got a yota to get together for RROCK and the buggy has a broken t case shifter, binding rear shaft, binding front axle shaft, and list goes on and on. I need a damn extra set of hands!!
 
I've had my SAW air shocks apart many many times and have played witht he oil and nitro level. Here's what I've found. More oil increases the rate, more nitro increases ride height. I've run mine with everyhting from totaly full of oil to almost empty and everywhere inbetween. I have mine set up now with max oil in front and rear...250psi in the front and 200psi in the rear. I need to take about 2/3 of the oil out of the rear shocks to get a good all around ride. With my set up like it is now the rear is just to stiff for bumping down a trail, but it works well in the rocks and off camber stuff , very stable. I wouldn't want to jump it like this (with the rear set like it is) I'd probably impact some vertebra on the landing. One thing I haven't seen anyone mention but I've found is almost a requirement for good working suspension with air shocks is a sway bar. I have a couple of differnet ones of those as well. I have a tappered bar that works awesome in the rocks and keeps everything very stable, but still doesn't help like I want it to with high speed cornering, I am ordering a non tappered bar for the race at UNF in May just for high speed stuff. I had one before and broke it (go figure , I never break anything, ha!) the only prob. with the solid type bar is it doesn't allow to let the rear suspension work in balance with the front. It's a trade off but worth it for jackassing at high speeds (my personal fav.) Oh.../I only run a rear sway bar. hope this helps some. Greg

rock equipment or speedway engineering for your sway bar needs...much cheaper than Currie.

oh yeah this is on a 3400 lb buggy with a close to 50-50 weight distribution.
 
rockwild said:
(For Now) I've ruled out suspension geometry - it doesn't jack from antisquat - it leans. One side compresses, other extends. Bad suspension geometry would cause the entire front or rear to do one thing not half and half. Because of this I think the suspension is fairly nuetral.

I'm trying not to sound like a know-it-all here and scare away advice cause I definitely have ZERO experience with this. I admit I'm a complete dumbass on this subject. My suspension design was just a guess too and may be wrong. just tryin to bounce ideas back and forth while I can't be working on it and get some idea where to start tweaking
Click to expand...

Your second paragraph pretty much cancles out your first. A pic of your suspension setup would be golden as well as some numbers from a 4 link calc. I am by no means saying the 4 link calc is the "end all be all" when it comes to deciding if a suspesion will work, but it could help to fix your problem. Don't bother will changing oil, call Poly and tell them you want the pistons they run in the fox air bumps, they have less holes as to slow down the oil and help in body roll. This still won't fix your problem but it sounds like your dead set on doing something to the shocks.
 
suspension pics

IMG_5462.jpg


IMG_5463.jpg


rear of the front links from Pside
IMG_5464.jpg


rear of front links from Dside
IMG_5465.jpg


IMG_5466.jpg


you can see a little more overall of the front links here - but it's before the shocks were charged
IMG_5363.jpg



Link lengths
rear 3 links are 36"
front 3 links are 42"
panhards are like 36" or something
I have about 9-10" seperation at the axle end both front and rear at the axle
The uppers both are on adjustable brackets front and rear

Problem with the rear is that it only works in EXACTLY that place. If I move the upper down 1 hole the pinion will hit the upper link on extreme flex. Up one and something else will happen - I forget what though.

With the offset rear pinion some very strange things happen with the pinion. Full droop on Pside and the pinion is almost centered under the buggy and I've had a hard time getting the d-shaft to clear the engine
Full stuff on that side and the 2 links on that side almost get into the same plane horizontally and cause a quick pinion change in the last bit of travel. We've adjusted it to control that and try to get a driveshaft to work in it.

the rear driveshaft is ~21" to the pillow block which is centered between the link mounts. I have a tom words extreme travel shaft with the high angle offset 1350 joints and we've clearanced the yokes on everything almost more than I'm comfortable with and they are still touching at some point. But I don't think they touch when we flex it out with no nitrogen and an engine hoist??????
 
as far as ruling out 3link numbers - I am no expert but I am an engineer and I think things thru, too much sometimes - well ok - all the time.

there's nothing that I've ever heard of or seen that the 3link could be causing. All the effects of suspension that I have knowledge of affect the entire axle side similarly. If it had bad antisquat - the rear would jack, not compress one and extend another. If the front had the problem and I was pushing into a bad front 3link - it would also affect the entire front end. I'm all ears for something that could be causing it but I haven't thought of it.

I'm a little resistant to suspension change due to the fact that everything is so close and we fought to get it to this point and all fit. I will change it if it is the problem but I'm not going to just start changing things to see what happens, I need to have a reason for doing it and believe in it myself.




I'm fairly convinced that it's due the fact that I have multiple drivetrain offsets. Add in the fact that I'm adding gear reduction before the transfer case and it's offset and I can see how I could have 4-5 times the torque load in the chassis vs your typical drivetrain/buggy design.

If that truely is the case - I have to increase spring rate, add some swaybars, possibly move my top shock mount outboard, control it with winches and just learn to live with it.
 
once I get it back together I'll also get some vid posted of just driving it and how bad it is then

You have to remember that the first video is extremely exagerating it. I'm trying to get it to do that and have to actually work a little to get it to do that.

On loose gravel once I got the tires spinning it was hard to get it to lean, anytime I was driving with it up in the gangsta lean I was working the front brakes to hold some bind in the drivetrain and keep it there.

It's near impossible to get it to do that in 4wd - at least that bad because the front is pulling the bind from the rear axle - the problem in 4wd would be climbing and turning (esp left)
 
Ok I'm ready to eat my words, admit defeat or whatever you want to call it.

I moved the lower rear link at the frame up one hole - broke misalignment spacers and had a hell of a time but it got moved.

I've only driven it to load it in the truck but I did a rear dig - and hardly any jacking.
I don't know if it's fixed or just because the front slide and not held but something changed and all I did was move it one hole - we'll see this weekend how it does
 
'spenshun's are crazy things... Its amazing how lil things can affect them. Keep on it and youll get it sorted man, let us know what it does this weekend.

I've never done a 3 link ( and dont know havent taken time, enough about them to want to.. ) so this is interesting stuff for us newbies thumb.gif
 

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