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suspension unloading

I was talking to a guy the other day about what was happening to your suspension/ shocks. He said that when you set a suspension up on a buggy like yours ( off set drive train) that the suspension will act different because the center of gravity is off set and it pushes differently. Glad you figured it out hope you do well at Jellico.
 
Makes since... weight bias and all that.

Hell my engine is offset 2.25 to the drivers side and if its just me in the rig or if I get out and look at it its got that pimp gangsta lean. ( not nearly as exagerated as this situation ... ) But then again, I havent spent a second outside of N2 to ride height in setup on my shocks. Will certainly be a consideration when I get to "tweakin"

I wonder how adverse/ non-issue setting up N2's at different levels is on a rig ? I mean if you break it down per corner will that give you a balanced ride if you adjust corner to corner methodically in that manner of taking in the weight bias ??

Good convo on the matter regardless... thumb.gif
 
We'll be asking all sorts of questions this weekend when the comp is over. 3 links seem so easy, but damn if they don't suck! :flipper: I do know the rear engine makes the thing front dig like a mofo. Barely any brake required and it slides around the rear tires.
 
scratch that - no change it was just the fact that there was no traction - still jacks like a mofo

talked to a bunch of guys this weekend got lots of info - also conflicting to what I've heard already.

3-4 of the other competitors are running 100psi or less in their shocks - they were shocked I had soo much psi in em and said that's my problem.

All of them were set up for crawlin though and only had ~2" up travel. Lots of oil and little pressure


I didn't get to test it too much though - broke the trans in the first few minutes!!! ****!
No output power

we took it to the Quincy High school along with the yota to show the kids some crawlers - it was a blast and we did some hard digs in the parking lot
 
rockwild said:
3-4 of the other competitors are running 100psi or less in their shocks - they were shocked I had soo much psi in em and said that's my problem.
Click to expand...


Thats kinda the setup Im thinking is the way to go. Mine did great at speed / and doesnt body roll at all, but it seems REAL stiff when slow crawling and Im in the same boat with limited seat time currently. i did some stupid driving when i broke my tranny and it acted really great .

I think alot of my stability comes from the fact the frontend is pretty much on the bumps right now at ride height. I want to lift the front several possibly 3 inches ( I know the amount I want exposed on my shocks at ride height.. ) so that may change bodyroll characteristics.

Anyway, my point in dragging this one back up is this :

Kelly and i were talking and neither of us have any "real" world N2 shock tuning experience. Seems the info is heavily conflicting and what not too.

You say crawlers are running tons of oil, lil Psi... I believe Greg with the sick ass Jims Garage buggy has experienced and changed alot with his N2's and as i recall he basically concurred this theory. And i know he slow crawls and also hits verts and other trails Hard too.

So should I dump what I have, fill to max oil and N2 to desired ride height ??? Thats what Im telling myself in my mind right now.. Kelly took it a step further with dump it all , compress the shocks completely and fill it until you spill it with oil... Then N2 to ride height. Im not sure what the diff in CC's would be and really without doing the later I doubt there's anyway to know ?????


:dunno: I know Im excited to get mine back to driveable so I can take it to work and get this suspension tune session underway !!! drool
 
Where did you get the pulley for the winch?

IMG_5466.jpg
 
Link lengths
rear 3 links are 36"
front 3 links are 42"
panhards are like 36" or something


In talking to Adam Carter the other day. He siad the trick to the three link is for all four links (3 + panhard) to be equal lengths.
 
You told a three year trial and error secret John.I just started reading this thread and that is the most valuable information we learned in three years.Adam had a problem with the front left jacking up in 4 wheel on the Red car.When we swapped engines he changed where the links mount to the front end and made the panhard the same as the other links and it completly stopped.Now when he puts it in gear all four shocks squat even.We've learned to build at full squat and raise to ride heighth.We also learned to go ahead and put it all together,drive,test and take apart paint and then finish.Wish I could help more.I'll get the other half to check it out when he gets back.
 
John Galbreath Jr. said:
Where did you get the pulley for the winch?

IMG_5466.jpg
Click to expand...

Is that a boat roller of some sort ??

Id like to put something like that on the bottom of my chassis for the front end...
 
The panhard on the rear is the same length as the links. The front is different, but we don't seem to see the front causing the movement. It is all in rear only.

I can't see the picture you are asking about, but if it is this buggy and the pully for the winch rope, that was made at a local machine shop out of delron. It seems to work good so far. The pins can be removed easily so that the winch line can be used in the normal configuration easily too.

Tranny is coming out tonight and to the tranny shop tomorrow.
 
local machine shop made the pully - quick simple and cheap - holds in there with a hitch pin so quick winchin is possible

I'm not so sure the rear panhard is the same length as the links??? It might be but I thought we made em shorter?


When we pull the trans I'm gonna dump all the shock N2 and oil - then fill shocks to the MAX with 10wt fork oil. when we get it going again I'm gonna not put any N2 in the shock and try to jack it again. Then we'll see if the shocks are pushing it over.

I'm really convinced it's from the drivetrain offset - from the little bit I have crawled it and ran it fast it does fine. The only time that it would jack I think would be when the tires get wedged in somewhere and the torque builds up in the chassis rather than spinning the tires - I would be going slow and backing out in this case any way.

It did good on a loose climb, and crawling and I could not get it to jack for the people I was asking for help from. It would only jack if I could find some real sticky surface (concrete) and I held the brakes too.

Puttin a 12" lift on my engine hoist today!!
 
When you say "to the max" on the oil. Are you going set it at a specified CC or just fill the remaining cavity of the shock body up ??

I guess I need to see if there is any Tech info on oil levels on RadFlo's site so i can figure out what to do on mine.
 
I really thought I had head that before. take schrader out, let it collapse, fill it up till it run out, let it run out level with the bottom of the threads. then you still have the area from bottom of thread to top of thread for an air chamber before complete bottom out. then again, if you even bottomed that far, the area of that is probably small enough that 100 cc's of 100psi air would be to like 2 cc's at 5K at full stuff laughing1
 
Just thought of something, if your drive train is off set then why not off set your shocks. This would balance out your rig more. Ex. if you had a rod 2' long and one end had 1lb weight on it you would have to locate the center to balance further toward the weight. same as your rig if your drive line is off set then your shock mounts would need to be off set more to one side to allow for the weight difference to balance out your rig. Just an idea. other than that I got nothing.
 
gonna call up King or downsouth and ask what's the most oil I can put in em. Then I'm taking them apart and pouring that much in

waiting on trans now to get rebuilt with new diff then waiting on shaft to get here.

the drivetrain has an offset - however the weight is fairly centered. By drivetrain offset I mean the gearing offsets to the rear output - the rear output is basically under the rock slider area or the farthest passenger point on the buggy.

I'm really curious to see what it does with no N2 in it? It will change the geometry a bit but??
 
Here's kings response

340cc is the max oil to put in the shock
That's what the shocks were designed to run with and so that's what they put in there.

They're answer was plain and simple - run 340cc's or run at my own risk and expect to damage the shock - ie they won't warranty or help with anything. i asked if 340 is as full as I can get it when compressed and the answer was they don't know. It was designed to run 340cc's so that's the max.

So what's the point of having airshocks and trying to tune them when the manufacturer tells you to just run it as is and not to touch it.

I'll call downsouth now and ask him what's the max oil volume
 
Your response has prompted me to question tech at Radflo. I just sent them a couple questions as well so Ill post up when I get a response and we can evalute what each Manufacture is saying about a product thats very similar.

( be a pretty neat real world experiment if you will... thumb.gif )

I asked about oil level max's as well as asked what the max N2 level was on the air bumps. I have my 2"s up front sitting at 140psi :dunno: They still bottomed flat out allowing my pulley to hit the upper tab just a touch. ( I have corrected that issue with welded on landing pad on the axle )
 
I'll say that so far I'm far from pleased with the support I've recieved and i've been trying very politely and continually. By far Polyperformance has been the most helpful but in the end they say we do not know if King shocks are the same as Fox
 

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