Well, that sucks. PBB yellow star

[wngrog]

OTM is an undercutting fag if you wanna know my opinion.


You deserve your piece but don't get greedy. It's a pretty damn hard market I'll have to think about what yer askin in your second post I will respond tho gimme a min


If I were you I'd talk to Chack Jock... yer bossman has his cell # or PM him on PBB... He knows his **** and I don't think he'd be skurr'd to share his pricing/copyright stance with you. He keeps his **** lock'd down tight so that when he does have that $5k photo he has his rights to it, not just gave that **** away for 10 or 20 bux.... He "rents" his photos basically...

Chad is in a different class than us mere mortals. He demands a lot with his photos. I would not be as restrictive as he if I were trying to make a buck.

That said, you need to do anything tom, **** or harry wants Ricky being a start-up. If some clown says I want every picture you have of me, you say, sure, $20 each and I will mail you a CD.

The attitude that you would rather not sell a photo than get $20 for it is going to be a killer.

 

[BamaTJ]

Chad is in a different class than us mere mortals. He demands a lot with his photos. I would not be as restrictive as he if I were trying to make a buck.

That said, you need to do anything tom, **** or harry wants Ricky being a start-up. If some clown says I want every picture you have of me, you say, sure, $20 each and I will mail you a CD.

The attitude that you would rather not sell a photo than get $20 for it is going to be a killer.

Ricky, I personally feel like your current attitude is that you would rather not sell your work to people. Just my perspective but it seems you are so worried about your copyright and you are being hard to buy from. I know Chad Jock edits the crap out of his pics and spends a ton of time on each one. I don't think you are at his level yet, he is much more established at this.

 

[bigsilly]

Ricky, I personally feel like your current attitude is that you would rather not sell your work to people. Just my perspective but it seems you are so worried about your copyright and you are being hard to buy from. I know Chad Jock edits the crap out of his pics and spends a ton of time on each one. I don't think you are at his level yet, he is much more established at this.

I actually would have to agree with Matt. You have to set a price in line with your product and the quality of it. You are going to always think your work is worth more than what the customer is generally willing to pay. You do not need to make it so complicated for someone to buy either. i am glad you decided to let the comp guys cross pick from albums, I think that is the best move for you. You may want to look into quantity pricing as well. 10 shots $100, 20 shots $175, 30 shots $250...

I do not think I would get so worked up over how they use the pics as long as they let people know who took them. Hell, what would most of the guys use them for other than personal use any way? We are not talking about guys that do this for a living, these guys are just like us. They have day jobs and do this for fun.

 

[InDaShop]

We are not talking about guys that do this for a living, these guys are just like us. They have day jobs and do this for fun.

No truer words. Every dollar I spend on shirts, pictures, etc...is dollars that dont help me race. And to the best of my knowledge rockracing hasn't gotten to the point where anyone is relying on it for income. We do it for the love, and the thrill. Diesel and parts are expensive.

Now look at the uses. Myself, I want a handful of 8x10's for my home office. So 10 years from now when I'm not racing, I can look at them and say, "Fawk ya I had a set back then". Outside of that?

 

[bigsilly]

Now look at the uses. Myself, I want a handful of 8x10's for my home office. So 10 years from now when I'm not racing, I can look at them and say, "Fawk ya I had a set back then". Outside of that?

Or some time down the road if this all blows up into a huge main stream sport you can look at them and say that you were part of the start of something really cool That is the way I look at KOH, the possibilities for that race are endless and to be a part of it at this stage is huge.

 

[muchado]

juz don't get too greedy brother....


make it harder to get the pics it's somethin ppl can and do go without... make ppl want yer **** man!! don't be all debbie down syndrobe on us... or er ya quittin cuz u found out what booze N wimmins was at college?

 

[DavidsCJ7]

When I was rodeoing the photographer had a table set up with a monitor after the round he would download the pics to the computer and set them to scroll. After we would get through riding we would walk over and look at the pics. If we wanted them we would pay him right then for the shots. I very seldom called and ordered from him after the fact. If I didnt have time to look at the pics that day, we would look at them at the next event. The man made good money but I bet 90% of his sales came from sales at the location.

 

[bigsilly]

When I was rodeoing the photographer had a table set up with a monitor after the round he would download the pics to the computer and set them to scroll. After we would get through riding we would walk over and look at the pics. If we wanted them we would pay him right then for the shots. I very seldom called and ordered from him after the fact. If I didnt have time to look at the pics that day, we would look at them at the next event. The man made good money but I bet 90% of his sales came from sales at the location.

There was a guy at Grayrock one time doing that.

 

[InDaShop]

What I thought was cool was the old hippie from Hannibal.

He emailed me two weeks after the event with all the pics of me that he had. Was very professional. And came to me, was zero labor. I did not buy from him, as I am expecting to get some from you and Nolen.

Just saying if you want to make a go, its going to take sometime. And remember who you customers are.

Another cool deal may be to sell drivers cheap stacks of pics to autograph and hand out..... We all need to grow this sport.

 

[muchado]

What I thought was cool was the old hippie from Hannibal.

He emailed me two weeks after the event with all the pics of me that he had. Was very professional. And came to me, was zero labor. I did not buy from him, as I am expecting to get some from you and Nolen.

Just saying if you want to make a go, its going to take sometime. And remember who you customers are.

Another cool deal may be to sell drivers cheap stacks of pics to autograph and hand out..... We all need to grow this sport.

you can get mad qty on **** like that cheep from psprint.com and other sources... An entrepeneurial Ricky B would mark them up slightly per photo print and sell them to you racers



we are all old coulda shoulda woulda guys let's stop tellin ricky how 2 run his **** (altho im just as guilty as the next guy)

 

[Speeding]

The last thing I want to do is start off too low, learn, then raise my prices and make myself look bad.

I honestly think i'm at a fair price now and unless I'm told by the majority otherwise I'm going to stick with it. Ken Mercer was the first competitor I talked to about doing this. He's bought photos before too, even from the west coast ($$$). So I value his ideas and opinion much more than the average wheeler who can't understand why someone would want to PAY for a picture when they could just take it themselves. Mercer has even already bought 3 photos at $20 from Badlands. One thing to think about too is you're not just paying for a picture. You're paying for a guy who is on course(not just anyone can be), 12 hours from his home, running around as fast as possible to get "the shot". It's not just a product, it's a service too. Not only that but expenses have to be factored in a little. I spent nearly $300 to go to Badlands. Fuel, hotel, and food. I doubt I can recover those costs, much less make profit.

Like I said before, I am selling prints and photo files to anyone. However, I am doing competitors a special deal if they buy 10 photo files or more.

 

[muchado]

The last thing I want to do is start off too low, learn, then raise my prices and make myself look bad.

I honestly think i'm at a fair price now and unless I'm told by the majority otherwise I'm going to stick with it. Ken Mercer was the first competitor I talked to about doing this. He's bought photos before too, even from the west coast ($$$). So I value his ideas and opinion much more than the average wheeler who can't understand why someone would want to PAY for a picture when they could just take it themselves. Mercer has even already bought 3 photos at $20 from Badlands. One thing to think about too is you're not just paying for a picture. You're paying for a guy who is on course(not just anyone can be), 12 hours from his home, running around as fast as possible to get "the shot". It's not just a product, it's a service too. Not only that but expenses have to be factored in a little. I spent nearly $300 to go to Badlands. Fuel, hotel, and food. I doubt I can recover those costs, much less make profit.

Like I said before, I am selling prints and photo files to anyone. However, I am doing competitors a special deal if they buy 10 photo files or more.

X2 I don't think you're gonna make $$ off competitors.... travel is expensive. A lil extra to help ain't bad and you can't give **** away for free.. You outta think about having a personal use and promotion use rates... Like discs for personal use/prints for affordable---but sell higher quantities and then if they like something like crazy and a sponsor wants to use it in an ad or they want to use it in promotional material like website, etc than you can charge em premium. Just a thought.


You need to research "conditional use"

 

[Speeding]

BTW, I donated one photo to the Band Of Parents via Amber Yost to be used for a gift to Doug Bigelow. Just wanted to share that info, shhh... dont' tell Doug.

 

[Rich]

It would seem that an offroad specific magazine would have interest in photos of events. Surely there is such a mag, since Crawl publishes history, someone must cover current events. After all aren't these periodicals? I don't think I would limit myself to a market less profitable than mass media. I think the policies you have in place for private shoots should apply. Surely competitors could pool their money for a private "group" shoot. They could then have the entire collection (unedited). You don't have enough capital to run a business at a loss for years on end.

 

[BamaTJ]

I spent nearly $300 to go to Badlands. Fuel, hotel, and food. I doubt I can recover those costs, much less make profit.

If you cannot cover your expenses you will not make it very long. I think you should re-evaluate what it is you are trying to do as a photographer and maybe talk to some entrepreneurs about strategies. There is lots of good advice in this thread, but it no good unless you take it

 

[wngrog]

I barely cover my expenses with $500 from Pirate.

There is no money in photography unless you are willing to learn the studio side of it. Portraits and weddings.

That said, I use it as a way to have a legitimate reason to write off my hobby.

Like Rich said, you have to have capital from another job to run at a loss like I do.

 

[Speeding]

Like Rich said, you have to have capital from another job to run at a loss like I do.

Which for me is CRAWL believe it or not, they actually paid me.

 

[muchado]

Your dad's not dumb... Take some advise from the ol' feller




I really think you could created a mass product and sell to general public along w/ your crawl stuff that's where your money is----in quantity...