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Winch line: Steel vs synthetic

Consider that NOT all synthetic winch rope is made of the same stuff. Some types may stretch more than others or break easier than others. Working load may be the same on paper but a superior brand may have a higher ultimate tensile strength.

There is alot of grey area in plastics with the same "type" name. One company might invent a formula for something super bad ass and patent it. They sell the sell the crap out of it resulting in other companys coming along and copying it, but the new guys have to change the formula to get around the patents and they dont neccessarily know the trade secrets about how the original stuff is manufactured. Most of the time, the stuff is cheaper and not as good although sales people will tell you it its the same stuff.

Fair enough, I can buy that. BUT

You can't trust sales people and relying on price to dictate quality is a stupid way to go about buying anything.

So how the hell do you know that a piece of rope you buy is without a doubt the quality stuff. I've never seen a rope destruction comparison test or write up. A test showing how it held up to chaffing, being pulled against a sharp edge, etc.
 
Fair enough, I can buy that. BUT

You can't trust sales people and relying on price to dictate quality is a stupid way to go about buying anything.

So how the hell do you know that a piece of rope you buy is without a doubt the quality stuff. I've never seen a rope destruction comparison test or write up. A test showing how it held up to chaffing, being pulled against a sharp edge, etc.

First hand experiance from others :awesomework:
 
Does this mean you've personally seen cable snap and go flying, to such a degree that Travis' account can be called ridiculous?


x2, i've experienced it on my truck...


It's a proven fact that cable stretches when a load is applied at both ends. When something stretches, it becomes a spring or rubber band if you will. If you were to load and stretch the cable to the point of failure, it then has to spring back to its original length. Therefore it cant just merely drop harmlessly to the ground.

Do you think you could attribute the weave pattern in the rope to its ability to drop?

I almost want to say that, once a large load is applied to the rope, the weave tightens to the point that you could assume it as a solid member? Also, because unlike steel, rope has no "original form" when looking at a stress-strain curve. I don't think you simulate a steel line in this manner, because of its material charactaristics to return to its original shape (stress-strain curve, elastic regon).

I do know its a little bit of a strech to use a stress strain curve with a weave, but i do know you can apply simple solid mechanics to weave. We found this out last year when doing equivalency calculations for carbon fiber vs 1010 steel...

I know there are a couple other ME's on here... What do ya think?
 
First hand experiance from others :awesomework:

True, but the only safe way for that to work is if you know the brand of rope you have.

An off-road shop or supplier can change brands and what is a great product this year at 4x4's R Us could be total crap next year because they switched manufacturers. I only say this because most people say "get <vendorsname>" and rarely is it the manufacturer of the rope they use, it's a reseller.

The next issue is the false information on several 4x4 sites about rope, including some popular ones that state it won't stretch, recoil, etc. Amsteels website site says it will by using terms "very low stretch" or "Similar elastic elongation to wire rope". (The other sites and write ups I was comparing against sold Amsteel) Samson's website warns of the same. Rope does and will stretch, like cable it can recoil on break.

It's amazing what some reseller sites claim vs. what is stated on Samson's website. (In the case of amsteel)

Some good reading for those that have synthetic:

http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/Standards_for_Strength_&_Usage.pdf
http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/Rope_Inspection_&_Retirement.pdf
 
I should have said - "Rigged properly it is not likely that cable will recoil". Won't was too strong of a word.

In the breaks I have seen, read about, or heard about that HAVE recoiled; they all had one thing in common. Improper rigging. Either pulling the cable against the fairlead at a sharp angle from the winch, attaching to a weak point on a vehicle and actually having that break off, using a d-ring wrong, using too small of a d-ring of a load, etc.

If the cable was pulled straight from one vehicle to another or a tree, AND it was the cable that broke, the cable just dropped to the ground.

I have witnessed a couple of breaks firsthand. All with wire rope (cable). First one, my 8274 with a new spool of Warn wire rope. About 150 feet. I was attempting to pull a stuck 5 ton flatbed loaded with logs up a muddy incline. My kid had cut, split, stacked this truck for three days with this load, and then couldn't get it up the hill. I drove the CJ over, thinking it would just pull it up the hill. Wrong. So I tried to winch it up. Wrong. So I drove to the top, tied off the jeep to a tree, and tried to winch. Wrong. Frustrated, I snatched it, with a Warn brand snatch block. Using 16000 pounds of pull, tied to a tree, and pulling straight line, I had 5 remaining wraps on the drum when I started. The wire rope was new, other than one test pull when I tensioned it on the drum.

The wire rope failed mid span. Neither near the winch or near the snatch block. It failed mid pull. The truck had travelled nearly half the length of the cables pull (about 1/4 the distance needed overall). The motor of the winch had not stalled out (like it did when I tried a single line pull). The rope just broke. I had not had a winch weight or blanket or coat on the cable, and the cable sprang back slightly, yet nowhere near the Jeep. I credit the snatch block for this, as the long end of the cable had to go thru the snatch block. However, remember, that the hook on the winch cable was hooked to my own bumper (due to the snatch) and that section of broken cable did NOT have the energy to spring into my jeep.

I blocked off the truck mid hill, drove to Tacoma, got another section of cable at the NW Wire Rope in the tideflats, drove back, rehooked the exact same way, and finished the pull.

The second time I witnessed a cable snap, was a TTC in Cali. In the early TTCs, not everyone had winches (now mandatory) so we had judges rigs in the Tank Trap to pull out the unlucky fools. Anyhow, I was judging, and a Mog 404 with a PTO got stuck and used my CJ for a winch anchor. I was tied to a tree (thankfully) on my back bumper. The Mog PTO winch does not have a Power Out function. To power out, you push in the clutch, select reverse, and that powers the winch in reverse. BUT, when you power into a bank, it binds the transmission in gear, and you can't get the gear selector to pull it out of low low gear. So he was stuck in forward, and had winched himself to a embankment and couldn't unhook or move or anything. And I was the anchor at the end of his cable. His cable was metric, but about 1/2 sized. It too snapped (also thankfully it didn't tear my CJ in half) and had little recoil. He repositioned his Mog, tied a knot in the end of the cable (don't ask me how) and rehooked to my CJ. This time, he pulled my CJ forward, causing the tree I'd anchored to fall on my Jeep. However he made it out of the hole. And we chainsawed my Jeep out from under the tree. No damage.

Moral of the stories. Never help your kid with a load of firewood. And the tank trap needs lots of wheel speed which Unimogs don't have.

Anyhow, neither time did the broken wire rope damage anything. Neither time did I see any substantial stored energy released.

And to this day I run wire rope. However, I still hide behind something during winching.
 
It just missed my buddy's cab, and went whipping into the woods... It was a good thing both of us were in our trucks... And that was on a relatively straight pull... I was a little below the hook point on his truck...

Where did the cable break? Was there a weight on the line?
 
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