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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Aeration
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jeepermc
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Damn good thread! I'm bookmarking this....Been wanting to convert my 289 to FI for a long time...Or just swap in a 5.0.
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
UpdateFWIW
Bottom line...............switched out to 24# injectors and 24# MAF,cranked the timimg back up to 15* and the thing runs like a raped ape!!Did a bunch of "other" little things like,insulated the fuel lines,re-routed them away from heat sources,went throught the fuel pump etc. but the main issue in my case was definetly the injectors were FUBAR from the beginning. The next mod will be a 70mm throttle body to flow some more air to balance out the injectors but as of now the **** runs good
Now to get your driveshaft issue fixed and you will be really dangerouse
Not Jobless
Mr Funbags
Judging by the way mine's been running since Moab it looks like I'll be replacing injectors as well.
jeepmauler
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Mine pings at 17* or so (under W.O.T.) so I just set it at 15* because I was too lazy to get in and out of the car to keep tweaking.
It's just the 'Ol hotrodder rule of thumb...."Advance till it pings then back off a tick"
Not Jobless
Mr Funbags
Since when did the Nigglet wheelin Ewok become a hot rodder :eeek:
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
Not Jobless
Mr Funbags
Better cut back on that...you might overheat :haha: :fawkdancesmiley:
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
I have thin skin--no heat retention :fawkdancesmiley:
jeepmauler
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I thought I had a handle on my crappy running motor but NO SUCH LUCK
So recently I put in the 24# parts(see above) and that made a huge diff in "overall" runnability but yet again the motor continues to fall on it's face when pushed
In the last two weeks I've....replaced the fuel pump(different brand/style:vane vs. gerator),new fuel pump toggle switch,after market throttle body,new TPS,new plug wires with insulator booties,insulated all remaining fuel lines exposed to heat,made 18guage stainless heat shields to isolate heat from critical areas,installed fuel pressure guage and prolly some other stuff I"ve forgotten
I also removed the whole interior of the car,replaced the back part of the tranny and reassemled car...but thats a whole other story
We have found,with the help of the new fuel pressure guage,that the car is going to 0psi at WOT........so at least NOW I have an "Idea" of where to focus and that will start tomarrow.
Here is some info on timing for someone that asked,I copied this from a Mustang bbs I'm on:
Ignition timing is when as the engine rotates the spark plug is fired. I forget where the Mustang gets the reference signal, some cars have a sensor in the distributor, some on the crank. One full rotation of the crank is 360 degrees, and the ignition timing is stated in degrees relative to TDC (top of piston stroke dead center).
When the spark ignites the fuel air mixture it takes some small amount of time for the flame front to move across the cylinder and burn all the fuel. The actual burn time depends on stuff like compression ratio, position of the spark plug, and shape of the combustion chamber, but for a given motor the time it takes to burn the fuel is about the same.
600 rpm is 10 rotations per second, or 1/10 of a second for a full rotation, and 6000 rpm is 1/100 second for a full rotation. What this means is that at higher rpm the spark can ignite the mixture more degrees before top dead center to have the burn complete at about the same point in rotation.
Timing too far advanced, too soon before TDC, and the burning fuel increases cylinder pressure enough to explode some of the mixture before it can burn. Detonation, pinging, knocking and various associated levels of harm to the motor.
Timing not advanced as far as it can be means less HP. Each 2 degrees of advance I think is good for about 1% HP increase.
With timing there are recognized safe points to start with, but for each engine its best value will come from trial and error, and depend on fuel and climate etc. Much of a dyno tune is setting the timing at the highest safe value, and its not unusual to have a different tune for different seasons.
So recently I put in the 24# parts(see above) and that made a huge diff in "overall" runnability but yet again the motor continues to fall on it's face when pushed
In the last two weeks I've....replaced the fuel pump(different brand/style:vane vs. gerator),new fuel pump toggle switch,after market throttle body,new TPS,new plug wires with insulator booties,insulated all remaining fuel lines exposed to heat,made 18guage stainless heat shields to isolate heat from critical areas,installed fuel pressure guage and prolly some other stuff I"ve forgotten
I also removed the whole interior of the car,replaced the back part of the tranny and reassemled car...but thats a whole other story
We have found,with the help of the new fuel pressure guage,that the car is going to 0psi at WOT........so at least NOW I have an "Idea" of where to focus and that will start tomarrow.
Here is some info on timing for someone that asked,I copied this from a Mustang bbs I'm on:
Ignition timing is when as the engine rotates the spark plug is fired. I forget where the Mustang gets the reference signal, some cars have a sensor in the distributor, some on the crank. One full rotation of the crank is 360 degrees, and the ignition timing is stated in degrees relative to TDC (top of piston stroke dead center).
When the spark ignites the fuel air mixture it takes some small amount of time for the flame front to move across the cylinder and burn all the fuel. The actual burn time depends on stuff like compression ratio, position of the spark plug, and shape of the combustion chamber, but for a given motor the time it takes to burn the fuel is about the same.
600 rpm is 10 rotations per second, or 1/10 of a second for a full rotation, and 6000 rpm is 1/100 second for a full rotation. What this means is that at higher rpm the spark can ignite the mixture more degrees before top dead center to have the burn complete at about the same point in rotation.
Timing too far advanced, too soon before TDC, and the burning fuel increases cylinder pressure enough to explode some of the mixture before it can burn. Detonation, pinging, knocking and various associated levels of harm to the motor.
Timing not advanced as far as it can be means less HP. Each 2 degrees of advance I think is good for about 1% HP increase.
With timing there are recognized safe points to start with, but for each engine its best value will come from trial and error, and depend on fuel and climate etc. Much of a dyno tune is setting the timing at the highest safe value, and its not unusual to have a different tune for different seasons.
Binder
Well-Known Member
It's possible that there is more than one issue going on at once but you definately have a fuel delivery issue assuming the gage you installed works right. At this point I would start taking all of the lines and hoses apart and check them thoroughly. Blow air through them both directions. Either A: your new pump isn't keeping up for some reason like low voltage which is possible or B: something is restriction the fuel flow along the way between the tank and regulator. Been through enough regulators to know that probably isn't it....
You're making progress. Finding the low fuel pressure is a good thing, now you have something to work with.:awesomework:
You're making progress. Finding the low fuel pressure is a good thing, now you have something to work with.:awesomework:
jeepmauler
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I'm gonna start on the "suck" side of the pump and check/replace the hose between the pump and the tank pickup.Although it doesn't seem like the hose is collapsing under vacume,it could be, so I'm gonna start there.I will also order an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and crank up my idle fuel pressure.My research on 5.0 boards show that most people with my setup run between 37 and 40 pounds at idle(I know stock is 32)......WTF..it's just $
\
also....If I make it out this next weekend I may just hard wire my pump DIRECTLY to the battery and see what that does
and crank up my idle fuel pressure.My research on 5.0 boards show that most people with my setup run between 37 and 40 pounds at idle(I know stock is 32)......WTF..it's just $\
also....If I make it out this next weekend I may just hard wire my pump DIRECTLY to the battery and see what that does
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crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
Quick question jeff---when the guage dropped to zero--did the motor die?
Binder
Well-Known Member
I'm gonna start on the "suck" side of the pump and check/replace the hose between the pump and the tank pickup.Although it doesn't seem like the hose is collapsing under vacume,it could be, so I'm gonna start there.I will also order an adjustable fuel pressure regulator
\
also....If I make it out this next weekend I may just hard wire my pump DIRECTLY to the battery and see what that does
Find out specifically what reg the Ford guys are running too It should be a vacuum referenced reg.
Binder
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It hits zero at high RPM so no it didn't die. The rig does die occasionally but the gage isn't where you can see it when driving.
jeepmauler
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no....when "its" acting up I can try to go from idle to WOT...at about 3k rpm the motor falls on its face and basiclly "runs" but is de-fuelled and falls flat....at that point the guage reads 0psi.Not sure if you were paying attention(why would you and not sure you were there yet) but it was stalling out while I was playing around on the rock face.....any sort of abrubt throttle input and it would die(like a bad TPS)...It will idle around OK but mostly it just sucks ass
jeepmauler
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Most are running BBK or Aeromotive adjustable regs with a vacume port.Sams friend (Sean?) had a BBK.....he said with his 24# injectors that his rig wouldn't run with a stock FPR
Crash, What do you think of having the fuel pump on all the time vs. run by the ecm? I have sorta similar probs but they were improved by adding a adj fpr.
Also, Mauler. On my sn95(94-95 5.0) there is a larger window on the distributor pickup(hall effect) that orients to #1 cyl. I had some issues with it as the fuel pump triggers at #1(at least it seems with my beater)
Also, Mauler. On my sn95(94-95 5.0) there is a larger window on the distributor pickup(hall effect) that orients to #1 cyl. I had some issues with it as the fuel pump triggers at #1(at least it seems with my beater)
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
I have always prefered to have the ecm control it due to the fact that #1 its one less circuit you have to control manually and the fact--in the event of a hard roll once the motor dies---so will the fuel pump...
Personal prefernce...
Personal prefernce...
Binder
Well-Known Member
The fuel pump is still on all of the time when the engine is running.
