Aluminum Radiators

[Blueleader]

I'm looking for an aluminum radiator to use in my CJ-5. The one that looks the best so far is a Griffin model from Summit (26"x19" 2 core). There are a few other brands that would work but the prices are a good 2-3 times what they want for a Griffin. Why is there such a huge price difference between brands? Do the others have features the Griffin doesn't? Is the Griffin just a cheap POS?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=GRI%2D1%2D25222%2DX&N=700+4294924500+4294839040+4294810996+4294883114+4294792867+115&autoview=sku

 

[Jason C]

I'm looking for an aluminum radiator to use in my CJ-5. The one that looks the best so far is a Griffin model from Summit (26"x19" 2 core). There are a few other brands that would work but the prices are a good 2-3 times what they want for a Griffin. Why is there such a huge price difference between brands? Do the others have features the Griffin doesn't? Is the Griffin just a cheap POS?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=GRI%2D1%2D25222%2DX&N=700+4294924500+4294839040+4294810996+4294883114+4294792867+115&autoview=sku

26X19 is pretty wide for a jeep. Generally use a 24" wide or 22"X19" the griffin is built with the rows epoxy to the tanks and not fuse welded like a howe or other brands making it cheaper to build. the parts are the same but the way the core is installed makes it not a good candidate for welding on since you will burn out the core and the epoxy will melt while tigging it for a fan shroud. Ron Davis is the only rad I reccomend to anyone. Everything else is junk. I have used griffen and howe and both work ok but not even close to as good as ron davis..... but they come at a price.

 

[Boomer]

I bought one of these to use in my CJ-8 to help keep the 401 cool. It looks pretty well made, but I haven't installed it yet so I can't comment on how well it works.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...020QQitemZ300022439495QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

[Lamar]

Dear WhizBangChris:
The plain and simple truth of the matter is that aluminum radiators S-U-C-K!!! Contrary to urban myth, aluminum rads do NOT cool better than brass rads, in fact, they cool WORSE than their brass counterparts do! If you don't believe me, then believe the facts, which you can look up for yourself. Look up the heat dissapation qualities for brass and aluminum, my friend. The ONLY advantage that aluminum rads have over brass is the weight savings. In fact, aluminum rads were originally developed by NASCAR to shave valuable weight from race cars. In addition to the fact that aluminum rads do not cool as well as brass rads do, there is also the little fact that aluminum rads are a real booger bear to repair out in the boonies. Also, aluminum rads are NOT rebuildable, that is you can't remove the tanks, rod the core out and then reinstall the tanks once again. If you want to get REAL serious about keeping your engine cool AND save some valuable $$$ use a 4 core brass radiator and leave those aluminum POS rads where they belong, on race cars.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[pokey]

Dear WhizBangChris:
The plain and simple truth of the matter is that aluminum radiators S-U-C-K!!! Contrary to urban myth, aluminum rads do NOT cool better than brass rads, in fact, they cool WORSE than their brass counterparts do! If you don't believe me, then believe the facts, which you can look up for yourself. Look up the heat dissapation qualities for brass and aluminum, my friend. The ONLY advantage that aluminum rads have over brass is the weight savings. In fact, aluminum rads were originally developed by NASCAR to shave valuable weight from race cars. In addition to the fact that aluminum rads do not cool as well as brass rads do, there is also the little fact that aluminum rads are a real booger bear to repair out in the boonies. Also, aluminum rads are NOT rebuildable, that is you can't remove the tanks, rod the core out and then reinstall the tanks once again. If you want to get REAL serious about keeping your engine cool AND save some valuable $$$ use a 4 core brass radiator and leave those aluminum POS rads where they belong, on race cars.
Your friend;
LAMAR

yep I agree with this. great for comp type rigs but not a great idea for a trail rig. look past the bling.....

 

[Travis1]

Dear WhizBangChris:
The plain and simple truth of the matter is that aluminum radiators S-U-C-K!!! Contrary to urban myth, aluminum rads do NOT cool better than brass rads, in fact, they cool WORSE than their brass counterparts do! If you don't believe me, then believe the facts, which you can look up for yourself. Look up the heat dissapation qualities for brass and aluminum, my friend. The ONLY advantage that aluminum rads have over brass is the weight savings. In fact, aluminum rads were originally developed by NASCAR to shave valuable weight from race cars. In addition to the fact that aluminum rads do not cool as well as brass rads do, there is also the little fact that aluminum rads are a real booger bear to repair out in the boonies. Also, aluminum rads are NOT rebuildable, that is you can't remove the tanks, rod the core out and then reinstall the tanks once again. If you want to get REAL serious about keeping your engine cool AND save some valuable $$$ use a 4 core brass radiator and leave those aluminum POS rads where they belong, on race cars.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Why did auto manufacturers start using Aluminum radiators? I can't imagine they were that concerned about weight when they built my truck. Is Al cheaper than brass right now?

Beyond that - Aluminum radiators are only good for ~6-8 years, then the corrosion (oxidation) builds up on the OUTSIDE inhibiting it's ability to cool. I never would have believed the old fart at the radiator shop until he flow tested my old Al one from my dodge and it tested out fine - but convinced me to got an OEM replacement one anyway and my trucks temp dropped from 250 to 130.

 

[Lamar]

Dear Travis;
Yep, aluminum rads are much cheaper to produce than the older brass rads are, my friend. And auto makers are looking looking to save weight AND money any way they can do it! Don't believe for a second that the auto manufacturer is using aluminum cored rads because it's the most effecient method of cooling your engine. They are using them because they cost LESS to build! Don't even think that they are looking out after you my friend, because they aren't. They are looking to make profits, any way and every way that they can. That is the bottom line unfortunately. And yes, it pays to listen to old farts because they (we?) know what they (we?) are talking about. I have the original 4 cor brass rad in my Toy FJ-40 and I don't EVEN want to know how many times it has been rodded, cleaned, repaired, etc. All I know is that it will NOT overheat in any type of environment. BTW, do you know what the best coolant for your rig is?
If you answered something like anti-freeze or ethyl-glycol, then that is the wrong answer. Water is the absolute best coolant that you can put into your cooling system. Yep, 100% H2O!!!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[KarlVP]

If water is the best coolant? Why don't we put straight water into our cooling systems during the summer when we aren't worried about freezing temps?

And also, doesn't adding chemiclas change the heating curve of H2O? I know the pressure makes it harder for water to boil, but adding stuff does too?

Or maybe I am backwards and adding chemicals makes water boil easier?

 

[Travis1]

While water alone is better at heat transfer, the addition of antifreeze increases the boiling point of water from 220* to ~265* in a 50/50 mix.

 

[Lamar]

Dear KarlVP;
You are right BUT there is ONE thing which NOBODY thinks about, my friend! Adding anti-freeze to water effectively raises the BOILING POINT of the coolant but it does NOTHING to increase cooling! In other words, the coolant temperature rises wayyyyy past plain waters' boilover point BEFORE it actually boils over. What that means is the coolant is no longer cooling anything at all, in effect, the coolant is now helping to make the engine even hotter, because the rad can't possibly cool the coolant in time, therefore the hot coolant is returning to the engine and not doing anything to help cool the head and cylinders. IMVHO, when the engine heats up, the best thing to do is let it cool down then add water to it after it's cool. I know this is a time consuming process, but the chances of destroying your motor are almost nil by doing this. Anti-freeze was originally developed just exactly for why it was so named, so the coolant wouldn't freeze in cold weather and also so the coolant would reach operating temp faster. It was in fact developed for water cooled aircraft fighter engines that routinely operated at altitudes above 30K feet. The automotive industry started using it after WWII in cold weather and then, due to very slick marketing, they (mostly DuPont) convinced the automotive public that anti-freeze was good to use year round. Here's another good trick when you are operating in a hot desert environment at low speeds. Use 100% anti-freeze to keep the coolant from boiling over. It won't help the cooling capacity of the cooling system, but it will keep you from having to add water because it won't boil over nearly as fast as water will. Of course, when you overheat, you still have to wait and cool down but it saves you from adding water.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Jason C]

Information = good.
Pissy know it all attitude = lame.

WTF dude?

The plain and simple truth of the matter is that aluminum radiators S-U-C-K!!! Contrary to urban myth, aluminum rads do NOT cool better than brass rads, in fact, they cool WORSE than their brass counterparts do!

because this statement is false. Trying to deliver his information as good tech.. depends on the senario and the design of the radiator. you cannot tell me a million dollar trophy truck with a radiator in the rear and 700 HP to keep cool in 100+ degree heat means it is not efficient. these trucks NEED to do well and win for sponsor reasons.. they need to be vibration proof and reliable. if this where the case thes companys would do whatever it takes to make their cooling better since they could just run one brass copper rad instead of 2 aluminum. less weight since you would have a couple gallons less water and a n extra Rad in the rear taking up weight and space.

If you don't believe me, then believe the facts, which you can look up for yourself. Look up the heat dissapation qualities for brass and aluminum, my friend. The ONLY advantage that aluminum rads have over brass is the weight savings. In fact, aluminum rads were originally developed by NASCAR to shave valuable weight from race cars.

If in fact the brass copper rad was THAT much more efficient than why would you not be able to use a smaller rad in place? I am not sayin that it is less than aluminum since it is FACT that brass and copper are better heat conductor. but in the efficiency of a radiator it seems the gain is not the HUGE advantage that Lamar is claiming.

In addition to the fact that aluminum rads do not cool as well as brass rads do, there is also the little fact that aluminum rads are a real booger bear to repair out in the boonies. Also, aluminum rads are NOT rebuildable, that is you can't remove the tanks, rod the core out and then reinstall the tanks once again.

the reason for them being cheap... since you buy a new one for less cost than a repair to the "precious" brass copper rad.

If you want to get REAL serious about keeping your engine cool AND save some valuable $$$ use a 4 core brass radiator and leave those aluminum POS rads where they belong, on race cars.
Your friend;
LAMAR

and than Pokey agrees. the propertys are correct but the numbers do not add up. so this HUGE disadvantage does not seem quite so huge and he is not backing it up except for fact from #'s and book. the main reason things never work correctly by most book or in house engineers or like what you see on pirate (keybord wealths of knowledge). they have the knowledge but no real world tests. now had Lamar had an aluminum rad of good quality and installed it new and had overheating problems than installed a brass copper rad and problem solved it owuld be more real world but to look in a book and what may look good there may not always be the right senario. there is alot of CRAPPY info given to people on the internet day by day. I see it all the time and when someone does not have real world expirence to back up what they are saying than I call them on it.


the pissy know it all attitude??? something I have noticed quite a bit. this place was set up because the "yappers" like to
Yap and since the mods became overbearing to others on the "other bord" everyone came here. I see the same thing happening on here. there is chest thumping (at lower volume" but it is happening and will do nothing but grow) and this bord like the other will go right down the shitter just like the other did. I personally like to read the Yapping I find it good entertainment and enjoy coming here. and I like to give tech when I have time and it is something I can help with. I really do not consider myself a know it all but when it comes to this stuff I am on top of my game. Just like when we call you Crusty.... We need intraweb info we call you. Everyone specialises in something and I hope people can learn from my hardships. sorry people Lamar is wrong and you cannot convince me otherwise. if you want to buy brass copper rad and waste your $$ foolishly than go ahead and do so.

 

[NotMatt]

I don't like having to babysit.

If you can't keep the personal attacks out of your post when correcting someone when they're wrong Jason, then don't post at all in this section please. This goes for everyone else just the same. I'm deleting the last few posts... if you feel like re-posting with some actual TECH, by all means, feel free.

Jason, you're talking about mods being overbearing on "other boards", and that's not what any of this is about, I'm not even sure why it was brought up. I try not to jump down peoples' throats about stuff because I don't want to be "that guy", so chill a bit. Lamar might be wrong, fine. How about you prove him wrong with some facts instead of being a jerk?

Color me unimpressed.

[EDIT]: Ok, the above sounds kind of out of place now since I restored Jason's good tech and deleted Jason's attack. This post is not referring to the one above it.

 

[pokey]

well your both right. The high end alum. radiators are good units but who has $700 or so to spend on one in the real world. The low end units are made cheap to be cheap and in my own testing (yes I have had both) the stock brass and copper work better and are easier to fix in the field. But thats just my opinion so take it for what you will.


well now my post dosent make any sense

 

[Roccrawler]

bring on the bling :flipoff:

 

[crash2]

I presonally prefer a non alum rad. Sure they can be fixed with an epoxy stick but I prefer to solder them shut for a more perminent fix. I have fixed all types and have to re-do alum. stuff more often and thats not due to improper procedures. Also what happenes if you have a neck on an alum. get torn at the tank? expoxy is great stuff but it won't hold up as GOOD as soldering it....

 

[Jason C]

I don't like having to babysit.

If you can't keep the personal attacks out of your post when correcting someone when they're wrong Jason, then don't post at all in this section please. This goes for everyone else just the same. I'm deleting the last few posts... if you feel like re-posting with some actual TECH, by all means, feel free.

Jason, you're talking about mods being overbearing on "other boards", and that's not what any of this is about, I'm not even sure why it was brought up. I try not to jump down peoples' throats about stuff because I don't want to be "that guy", so chill a bit. Lamar might be wrong, fine. How about you prove him wrong with some facts instead of being a jerk?

Color me unimpressed.

:rb: there was Tech and facts to back up real world wheeling expirences and reasons why it may not be such a bad idea to run an aluminum. Like I explained in the later posts that you deleted rather than just deleting the "personal attack" post.

I guess BRASS COPPER RADIATORS ARE UBER COOL RUN OUT AND GET YOURS TODAY!:Good:

 

[Jason C]

I presonally prefer a non alum rad. Sure they can be fixed with an epoxy stick but I prefer to solder them shut for a more perminent fix. I have fixed all types and have to re-do alum. stuff more often and thats not due to improper procedures. Also what happenes if you have a neck on an alum. get torn at the tank? expoxy is great stuff but it won't hold up as GOOD as soldering it....

No you take it home and tig it with that big FANCY TIG you need to whipe the dust off that you have had forever and refuse to use!:flipoff: you would be suprised at the ease once you change over mike. and if you seen Kirks Rad after a year of getting smashed repetedly you might think a little different. If you hit a brass copper with soldered tanks will split since it will not deform but fracture.

the advantage of the cooling capibility is like comparing 4340 to 300M the gains are minimal (like in the 5% range) yet you pay about 1.5 times the cost. Remeber I use to have a toyota too. I have repaired many radiators.

 

[crash2]

No you take it home and tig it with that big FANCY TIG you need to whipe the dust off that you have had forever and refuse to use!:flipoff: you would be suprised at the ease once you change over mike. and if you seen Kirks Rad after a year of getting smashed repetedly you might think a little different. If you hit a brass copper with soldered tanks will split since it will not deform but fracture.

the advantage of the cooling capibility is like comparing 4340 to 300M the gains are minimal (like in the 5% range) yet you pay about 1.5 times the cost. Remeber I use to have a toyota too. I have repaired many radiators.

If fixed correctly then you won't have to remove it "again"

Why would I change over though. Yes the gains are minimal but I also run a pure "stock" rad--that bolts in--something you can get alot easier if needed to replace.

But I am not here to argu the fact between different types of rads because thats --well kinda stupid and :rainbow: Its like arguing tires :;

 

[CrustyJeep]

Its like arguing tires :;

Yours are stone cold wore out :flipoff:

 

[crash2]

Yours are stone cold wore out :flipoff:

Just makes for good burnouts at the funny rocks