Binder
Well-Known Member
I never said it would. In fact I explained why it would not in the beginning of the thread.
Jeff if you have nothing to add go away.
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Binder--> horsepower & torque
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I never said it would. In fact I explained why it would not in the beginning of the thread.
Jeff if you have nothing to add go away.
Binder
Well-Known Member
It's a four stroke motor and fuel has nothing to do with anything here.
Lucky Jeff
Well-Known Member
You have nothing to add, obviously. Explain to me why trucks are built the way they are, and not the way you want them to be.
Binder
Well-Known Member
I did. Post 6-13. Go read it if you want to know.
Lucky Jeff
Well-Known Member
I have, a number of times. The trucks are built the way they are for a reason. You just want to dance around it with a bunch of other variables to try and steal away from that fact.
TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm
A formula car with a buttload of RPM will have a crappy torque number.
A diesel semi with a buttload of torque, will have a crappy RPM ability.
Both can have exactly the same HP.
The formula car moves quickly, because it's light, and a light vehicle doesn't need a lot of torque to get (and keep) it moving, but the high RPMs of the engine will allow it a numerically faster theoretical speed.
The diesel semi is heavy, and needs lots of torque to get (and keep) it moving. It doesn't need a lot of RPM to keep it moving, because it's never intended to go beyond a much lower speed.
In order to move both vehicles at the same speed, the semi would need much more energy, because it's heavier, less aerodynamic, and has much much more drag. Therefor, it would take a much higher amount of fuel (or work, or HP) to move it at the same speed as the F-car.
Where the HP / Torque battles always seem to come into play is in the truck towing wars. The V10 gas -v- the I6 diesel. Both can theoretically have the same HP. But the diesel does so with lower RPMs, so has more torque. The gas does so with higher RPMs, so has less torque. In some circumstances, the quicker revving gas motor will outpull the slower revving diesel. In other circumstances (typically when heavily loaded), the diesel will outpull the gas engine.
I think.
Did some more reading, and also came to this conclussion: With proper gearing (transmissions, axles, etc), you could build a gas & diesel engines with exactly the same towing characteristics. However, the diesel will do it with much lower rpms (say 1200 rpm) than the F-car (say 12000 rpm), which means that the F-car engine will wear out 10 X faster (all other things being equal) And for commercial durability, the lower rpm motor with equal towing characteristics becomes the economically more desireable solution.
A formula car with a buttload of RPM will have a crappy torque number.
A diesel semi with a buttload of torque, will have a crappy RPM ability.
Both can have exactly the same HP.
The formula car moves quickly, because it's light, and a light vehicle doesn't need a lot of torque to get (and keep) it moving, but the high RPMs of the engine will allow it a numerically faster theoretical speed.
The diesel semi is heavy, and needs lots of torque to get (and keep) it moving. It doesn't need a lot of RPM to keep it moving, because it's never intended to go beyond a much lower speed.
In order to move both vehicles at the same speed, the semi would need much more energy, because it's heavier, less aerodynamic, and has much much more drag. Therefor, it would take a much higher amount of fuel (or work, or HP) to move it at the same speed as the F-car.
Where the HP / Torque battles always seem to come into play is in the truck towing wars. The V10 gas -v- the I6 diesel. Both can theoretically have the same HP. But the diesel does so with lower RPMs, so has more torque. The gas does so with higher RPMs, so has less torque. In some circumstances, the quicker revving gas motor will outpull the slower revving diesel. In other circumstances (typically when heavily loaded), the diesel will outpull the gas engine.
I think.
Did some more reading, and also came to this conclussion: With proper gearing (transmissions, axles, etc), you could build a gas & diesel engines with exactly the same towing characteristics. However, the diesel will do it with much lower rpms (say 1200 rpm) than the F-car (say 12000 rpm), which means that the F-car engine will wear out 10 X faster (all other things being equal) And for commercial durability, the lower rpm motor with equal towing characteristics becomes the economically more desireable solution.
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Binder
Well-Known Member
You're getting it!:awesomework: Some of the other stuff is a bit off but you're getting it.
Binder
Well-Known Member
Lucky Jeff
Well-Known Member
Dance around what? WTF are you even talking about?
Are you really that blind? I know you're trying to prove a point, and going to extreme lengths to do it. Try to come back to reality. We don't live in a world where hamsters move trains.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
I wish your degenerates would refer to "tractor" and "dyno" correctly.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4KwB5sCYok[/YT]
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4KwB5sCYok[/YT]
Binder
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to prove anything. I've tried to explain something in laymans terms so maybe others can understand it.....I don't know WTF you're talking about.
If it's proof you want, here it is but I'm sure you won't undersdtand.
HP = Torque x RPM
Lucky Jeff
Well-Known Member
Binder
Well-Known Member
Dude you're doing nothing more than talking out of your ass. I've never said anything about towing a toy hauler with a Civic. Sounds to me like it's your dream.
I never said any vehicle with high torque numbers were useless, where did you make that up?:looser:
In stead of making things up why don't you quote something I've written in this thread and explain to us where it's wrong.:corn:
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Lucky Jeff
Well-Known Member
Torque numbers don't matter. You've made that perfectly clear. As long as it's the same hp, torque means nothing. As long as you can add in all the gearing in the world. Oh wait, there's a reason now.. Damn! I am not going to go back over every single rant you've had on this subject. You HATE when people talk about torque. There is a reason it's used for reference, and you go nuts when people bring it up. Get over it.
Binder
Well-Known Member
So where's the quote?:corn:
WHITE TRASH1
fruit stripe
My moms old 89 pontiac grand am had a quad 4 four cylinder that was rated at 180 hp. My 89 ferd with a 7.3 IDI is rated at 185 hp. I would not try towing with my moms old car even if Binder says I could. :flipoff:
I wanna see a gasser do this... I should be able to with no problem right? It's all about HP and these truck are putting out in the neighborhood of 7-800HP so it shouldn't be a problem for them.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxv2hOlFav4&feature=related[/YT]
I wanna see a gasser do this... I should be able to with no problem right? It's all about HP and these truck are putting out in the neighborhood of 7-800HP so it shouldn't be a problem for them.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxv2hOlFav4&feature=related[/YT]
Binder
Well-Known Member
I don't recommend you tow with your moms car and yes those same trucks with gassers making the same HP in the same band would do the same thing.
whatthe?
Well-Known Member
If they are making the same HP in the same band, they would have the same torque. HP doesn't matter, it's just and expression of torque over the range of RPM's. You want a different HP number you change the torque curve. You can't adjust HP independently. Torque is the horse, HP is the cart. HP gets taken where ever the torque curve goes. It's the twist that gets a heavy load going and continues to overcome the weigh/resistance of what's being moved. A motor with 400hp and 800ftlbs will move more weight than one with 400hp and 400ftlbs all else being equal.
hp and torque are equal @5252 rpm, to make 400hp+ 800ftlb the torque peek would be at a much lower rpm therfor all other things cant be equal....
to make your torque peek @ 4000 rpm and have it fall off fast enough to keep your hp peek from climbing you would have to have a motor built with an extremely narrow powerband , mostlikely with long tuned runners set up to resonate , cam with realy tight lca etc.
basicly you would probably have a 1000rpm window, would need a ton of gearing, and alot of speeds to make it useable. think about a realy peeky 2 stroke bike, only with out being able to rev it...
i got to say, reading some of the arguments sure shows how little understanding some people have on the subject, witch has direct coralation to there overall automotive knowlage...
yha, my speeling sux... call me mike... lol
to make your torque peek @ 4000 rpm and have it fall off fast enough to keep your hp peek from climbing you would have to have a motor built with an extremely narrow powerband , mostlikely with long tuned runners set up to resonate , cam with realy tight lca etc.
basicly you would probably have a 1000rpm window, would need a ton of gearing, and alot of speeds to make it useable. think about a realy peeky 2 stroke bike, only with out being able to rev it...
i got to say, reading some of the arguments sure shows how little understanding some people have on the subject, witch has direct coralation to there overall automotive knowlage...
yha, my speeling sux... call me mike... lol
whatthe?
Well-Known Member
that 400hp and 800ft/lb is about what the Big 3 diesels are making for this model year. I think they're pretty usable. You're thinking gas motor.
