Binder--> horsepower & torque

Glenn · Mar 28, 2011

WHITE TRASH said:
My moms old 89 pontiac grand am had a quad 4 four cylinder that was rated at 180 hp. My 89 ferd with a 7.3 IDI is rated at 185 hp. I would not try towing with my moms old car even if Binder says I could. :flipoff:

I wanna see a gasser do this... I should be able to with no problem right? It's all about HP and these truck are putting out in the neighborhood of 7-800HP so it shouldn't be a problem for them.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxv2hOlFav4&feature=related[/YT]

That has to be really good for the u-joints.:redneck:

WHITE TRASH1 · Mar 28, 2011

t1h5ta3 said:
i got to say, reading some of the arguments sure shows how little understanding some people have on the subject, witch has direct coralation to there overall automotive knowlage...

Not really. Some people don't have a grasp how to change their spark plugs but can rebuild an automatic transmission which is a far tougher task. If I'm completely and utterly wrong on the hp vs torque debate fine but I have more first hand knowledge on **** that actually matters in the real world of turning wrenches. This is just a side bar. :redneck:

WHITE TRASH1 · Mar 28, 2011

Ok Binder I think I figured out your angle.

In a weightless vaccum where drag coefficients and gravity don't come into play. Torque doesn't matter if the engines are kept at peak HP one end of the hypothetical track to another. Correct?

I guess my argument is rooted in reality so we are discussing related topics instead of the same one...

Jaydog · Mar 28, 2011

Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

whatthe? said:
If they are making the same HP in the same band, they would have the same torque. HP doesn't matter, it's just and expression of torque over the range of RPM's. You want a different HP number you change the torque curve. You can't adjust HP independently.

Yes if they were in the same RPM range. If the power curve was the same in a different RPM range it will have the same power and ability to accelerate a load. You can change HP independantly by changing the RPM range.

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

t1h5ta3 said:
hp and torque are equal @5252 rpm, to make 400hp+ 800ftlb the torque peek would be at a much lower rpm therfor all other things cant be equal....

All othere things equal but the torque number. Remember this is the point. Obviousely the RPM range would be different so gearing would also have to change to make things equal.

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

WHITE TRASH said:
Ok Binder I think I figured out your angle.

In a weightless vaccum where drag coefficients and gravity don't come into play. Torque doesn't matter if the engines are kept at peak HP one end of the hypothetical track to another. Correct?

I guess my argument is rooted in reality so we are discussing related topics instead of the same one...

The concept is the same in a vacuum or here on earth. And yes that's correct.:awesomework:

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

Jaydog said:
Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races

Torque sells pickup trucks just watch the TV commecials. It HAS to be true.:haha: HP wins races.:;

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

I'll quote again from the article that started this thread.

Think of it another way: In cars of equal weight, a 2-liter twin-cam engine that makes 300 HP at 8000 RPM (197 lb-ft) and 400 HP at 10,000 RPM (210 lb-ft) will get you out of a corner just as well as a 5-liter engine that makes 300 HP at 4000 RPM (394 lb-ft) and 400 HP at 5000 RPM (420 lb-ft).

This explains it short and simple. And BTW some of us need to stop thinking in terms of towing a trailer. Towing is no difference than adding weight to a vehicle. If it pleases you add a zero at the end of the cars weight above and make them say 40,000 lbs. Still holds true.

Now for you guys. If you still have doubts explain to us a scenario where torque moves something. Back up your claim with facts. Distance traveled, time to travel the distance, torque required to get there, etc.

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

WT, the video you posted with the semi trucks racing (cool vid BTW) how much torque would you say those trucks are making? Don't need an exact number just something close..

WHITE TRASH1 · Mar 28, 2011

Binder said:
The concept is the same in a vacuum or here on earth. And yes that's correct.:awesomework:

If it was the same here on earth then dragsters would be square beings aerodynamics don't matter. Don Garlets could have left the line with his parachutes open and still beat Eddie Hill because the drag created by them isn't a factor. See what I'm getting at yet?

In a vaccum none of that matters but here in the real world there millions of variables that make a huge difference so HP alone won't win races.

WHITE TRASH1 · Mar 28, 2011

Binder said:
WT, the video you posted with the semi trucks racing (cool vid BTW) how much torque would you say those trucks are making? Don't need an exact number just something close..

I'd wager they are near1000 hp and 3000 ft lbs torque. Even the most advanced huge power tuned semi race rigs are only making in the area of 1500 hp with quad turbo's etc. The trucks in that video aren't your typical race rig they are OTR trucks that haul freight all week and race on the weekends after a tune.

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

WHITE TRASH said:
In a vaccum none of that matters but here in the real world there millions of variables that make a huge difference so HP alone won't win races.

For the purpose of comparrisons you have to have all of thos variables equal. HP alone will win races. SHOW me otherwise.:corn:

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

WHITE TRASH said:
I'd wager they are near1000 hp and 3000 ft lbs torque. Even the most advanced huge power tuned semi race rigs are only making in the area of 1500 hp with quad turbo's etc. The trucks in that video aren't your typical race rig they are OTR trucks that haul freight all week and race on the weekends after a tune.

What's the typical gears in a OTR truck? I didn't see them shift (this is key to something I said earlier) , what gear would they have been in?
How much did they weigh? Doesn't need to be a exact number just a good guess is fine...

Bill · Mar 28, 2011

If what you are saying is indeed true, simple law of economics would have ricers hauling freight to save on fuel :stirpot:

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

Bill said:
If what you are saying is indeed true, simple law of economics would have ricers hauling freight to save on fuel :stirpot:

You haven't read what I wrote or didn't understand it. I never said to tow anything with a honda.

Big trucks are made for hauling heavy loads. Small cars are not. This thread isn't about towing or about trucks specifically.

Bill · Mar 28, 2011

about hp and torque?

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

Binder said:
What's the typical gears in a OTR truck? I didn't see them shift (this is key to something I said earlier) , ...

I'll get back to this later and it wil explain much of the reason why big truck drivetrains are the way they are.
I don't want to get too far off track with it right now....

Binder · Mar 28, 2011

Bill said:
about hp and torque?

Yes, the thread is about the relationship between the two and what they can or can't do for you. First I would recommend reading the article linked on page one.

jeffroadams · Mar 28, 2011

Seems if those trucks didn't shift then they started in a high gear requiring a lot of torque making up for the gearing making torque essential to the equation