coilovers

rpf500 · Jul 29, 2014

I have read, but still need help.

At full droop there is zero tension on springs. Limit straps are too long, but even when fixed, I know there will be a gap between adjuster nuts and top coil.

So, do I just use tender coils to make up for it? If i run the adjustment nut down, rig sits too high.

coilover body from top of threads to bottom of BODY is 20.25" long. 9" of shaft showing, but again, its too tall.

Can any one give me some insight? The coilover bible isnt helping me on this one.

Oh, and this is front only. Backs are snug at full droop, have 3" of shaft still at full stuff, and sits just about right.
Thanks guys!

RustyC · Jul 29, 2014

Use a 2" longer lower spring.

TBItoy · Jul 29, 2014

Re:

What are your current spring specs?

You need a softer spring rate so you can get some pre load at full droop. Or a tender coil.

rpf500 · Jul 30, 2014

Re:

TBItoy said:
What are your current spring specs?

You need a softer spring rate so you can get some pre load at full droop. Or a tender coil.

That's part of the problem. I have no idea what the spring rate is. Coilovers came with the rig.

The tender coils look so small I can't even see how they could hold much downward pressure on the coils to keep them in place. Do you guys run tenders?

I can get a longer lower coil, but it's just a guessing game since I have no idea what rate is on there already.

This is my first C.O rig, so I am learning alot. They seem to work really,really well, but maybe if set up correctly would work even better.

Mortalis5509 · Jul 30, 2014

Re:

Tender coils are a band aid to fix something thats incorrect.

May not have enough preload or else the springs are too short. Doesnt mean you need to change the rate as that would affect ride height.

rpf500 · Jul 30, 2014

From what I am reading online, and what you guys are saying, I am thinking that if I want it to sit lower and still have preload (like the rear does now) then I need to change the springs. Atleast the bottom spring. If ride height wasn't my issue, then I could leave them preloaded like they are now, and all should be good.

Any ideas on spring rate? I don't have scales and all that stuff to measure my corner weights.

Would some pics help you guys out any? I can get pics tonight. Anything specific you need to see?

Here is 2 that I have on my computer already.

In the pic of the front, the springs are just laying there. NO preload at all and probably 4-5 inches away from the preload nuts.

In the pic of the rear, there is still tension on the springs. I am pretty much at full flex, so they SHOULD be OK set up like they are.

Neal3000 · Jul 30, 2014

Post up here and Wayne will tell you what springs to run

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1074029-spring-tech-thread-23.html

rpf500 · Jul 30, 2014

Wow, tons of info. My head is spinning.

Sounds like I have things all ****ed up. I have little to no preload on the rear. If I add 1/2" to 1" preload on the rear, ride height will go up.

I will take more measurements tonight. I bought this rig this way and have been "fixing" stuff for 2 months now. It's a solid rig, but little stuff like this is killing me. Hell, maybe the front and rear springs need swapped for all I know.

I read on the thread that was posted that 3" of preload was too much. Do you guys set ride height and then shoot for about 1" of preload or what?

Mortalis5509 · Jul 30, 2014

Re:

I have between 2-3" of preload.

Neal3000 · Jul 30, 2014

I think 1" is what he says to shoot for now

rpf500 · Jul 30, 2014

Let me ask something really stupid. regarding my rear co's.

To set preload do i let the rear go full droop then run preload nuts down 1" after it hits the top spring? or, do i let vehicle weight sit on it, run the nut up until spring is "loose" then tighten 1"?

Figured since i THINK my rear springs are correct, i could start by "fixing" them, then go to front and figure it out. Really thinking fronts will end up needing new springs.

Neal3000 · Jul 30, 2014

At full droop

TacomaJD · Jul 30, 2014

Neal3000 said:
At full droop

Full droop and use a good ratchet strap to compress the lower spring if needed (but be careful about it). That's the way I adjust mine. But mine has long springs on them, so they are always under compression, even at full droop.

rpf500 · Jul 30, 2014

Thank you both!
Kids about to go to bed, so will head to shop shortly. Will start with rear and see what height I get and go from there

TacomaJD · Jul 30, 2014

rpf500 said:
Thank you both!
Kids about to go to bed, so will head to shop shortly. Will start with rear and see what height I get and go from there

Measure how much shaft comes out at full droop and that will be your travel. Judging by how long you said the shock body is, I'm guessing they are maybe 18's? Sounds long for a shock body based on where you say you measured from. 9" of shaft showing at ride height is a lot, but not as bad if they are 18's I guess.

rpf500 · Jul 31, 2014

This just keeps getting better. Worked last night till about 2 a.m. Not just on suspension, but still.

Anyway, here are some specs. From all you guys have told me, and all I have read on the web, I am atleast smart enough to know that whoever set this up originally, didn't do it right. It's worse than what I originally thought and now I have a monster truck/crawler/roll over waiting to happen. On the bright side, I came from leaf springs like most everyone else and was amazed by the CO's. Can't imagine how awesome they would be if tuned correctly.

I may give too much info so please bear with me.

Front:
C.O's at full droop, center bolt to center bolt= 39"
Front bumper height before I did anything= 40"
UNSPRUNG (full droop coil length) 14" and 14"
Front bumper height when I added 1" of preload=41"
Shaft length at full droop, WITH 1" preload on coils = 10.5"
Shaft length, WITH 1" preload, at ride height = 9"..............yes, 9"
On the front CO's, with 1" preload and have 5" of threads left at the top. (To be clear, I could add a 4" coil on top and have 1" of threads left.)

Rear is the same F'd up story basically.

C.O's at full droop, center bolt to center bolt= 35.25"
Rear bumper height before I did anything= 34.25"
UNSPRUNG (full droop coil length) 14" and 14"
Rear bumper height when I added 1" of preload=35.25"
Shaft length at full droop, WITH 1" preload on coils = 12.5"
Shaft length, WITH 1" preload, at ride height = 11"
On the rear CO, with 1" preload, I have 3" of threads left on top.

Like I said before, I have no clue on the current spring rate. On the front, the coils APPEAR to be the same diameter just looking at them. On the rear, the upper coil is noticeably thinner and easier to push by hand. They are Hyperco coils. Other than that, that is all I know.

I will post up some pictures of the monster truck in a minute. My old rig was on 39.5's and this has 42"s so some of it is just me getting used to looking at it. The cage is at 73". I was next to a buggy on 43's this weekend and I was taller than his belly by a little bit, and that was BEFORE the preload.

Neal3000 · Jul 31, 2014

Your shaft lengths at full droop don't sound right, should be 14, 16, or 18"

Ideally How much shaft do you need showing to be at the ride height you want?

rpf500 · Jul 31, 2014

I thought the same about the shafts. I expected a lot more droop, judging by the the size of the CO body. I didn't push down on the tire or anything, but the tires were definitely suspended and able to turn by hand.

I will talk about the rear since it seems to be "closer" than the front.

Currently have 11" of rear shaft at ride height making the bumper at 35.25". I am thinking I want that back down to about 33". So, I guess that would make about 8"-9" of shaft showing?

When I got the rig, it was damn near perfectly level but had no preload at all. I wanted to drop it down about 2" at that time front and back. That is kind of what I am going off of. I would be open for opinions of what you guys run belly height. I didn't write it down last night but I THINK that at bottom of frame rails I was at 28" with NO preload. I will have to confirm. Ideally, I want it low with all the flex/droop I can have. Doesn't everyone want things to be PERFECT?!