coilovers

rpf500 · Jul 31, 2014

In this pic, the drivers side coils are loose and and about 3" from the preload nut. This is what prompted this debacle.

TBItoy · Jul 31, 2014

Re: Re: coilovers

I'd see what was binding on droop, and fix that first

rpf500 · Jul 31, 2014

Re: Re: coilovers

TBItoy said:
I'd see what was binding on droop, and fix that first

What do you mean by this? Are you referring to my comment about the springs being loose in the picture, or are you referring to NEAL3000 stating I should have more shaft showing?

Or neither?

I have no clue what would be binding. Limit straps are too long already, so those are not doing it. :dunno:

Neal3000 · Jul 31, 2014

I like around 22" for belly height but it all depends on what your doing, i'm thinking your probably going to have to redo your shock mounts to get the ride height you want with the proper spring rate and preload

You should just pull them shocks and see whats going on with them

Elliott · Jul 31, 2014

If those springs haven't been painted blue then they might have the poundage scribed in on the top or bottom of the coils, or at least all the ones that come with my king coilovers did.And I think there is a lot of confusion going on here about adjusting this or that. The top spanner nuts are for setting ride height only. The spanner nuts that ride inside the coil springs allow you to preload the top spring. You need to first figure out where exactly you want this thing to sit and get the correct springs for this.The bottom springs need to be 2" longer than the shock travel 16" travel shocks need 18" long bottom springs, this keeps the slider from getting hung up on the shock body at full drop. Your top spring length needs to be long enough that when the shock is fully extended that it doesn't let the springs hang loose. This is where it would help to have the weight of your rig, total weight , and front and rear. Surely you can find a scrap yard or something with a set of scales. Then you can figure the weight front and rear by jacking the rig up with two jacks in the same spot on the frame side to side till it just balances out then figure the percentage front and rear. If you know the weights of your springs now and the weights front and rear this would be a lot easier, anything else will be a guess.And places like eor and wide open are great about helping out on springs.But they will need the same info

Elliott · Jul 31, 2014

And also I wouldn't change the shock mounts, it looks like you have to much up travel, unless your planning on high speed dessert runs. 6-8" of up travel works really good depending on your driving style.

TacomaJD · Jul 31, 2014

Those look like at least 14" to 16" shocks. The shaft showing at full droop measurements are def off. Undo your limit straps when trying to make it go full droop.

I don't know how you are making it go to full droop, but when I do mine, I hook my winch up to cherry picker and jack my front end up until the shocks bottom out and almost begin picking up the axle. Then I make my adjustments. You should have no issue getting full droop like that unless your link geometry is so bad that it's binding somehow?

TacomaJD · Jul 31, 2014

Re: Re: coilovers

Pics of my front end at full droop using cherry picker (engine hoist)

I don't think you're going to have to change your shock mounts, because you have too much shaft showing at ride height now anyways, once you get your springs worked out to the propper lengths and weights, you will only want roughly 6-7ish inches of shaft showing anyway, so that will get your ride height down a good bit.

If you can't get no more than 10-11" of shaft showing out of those shocks manipulating droop in the shop, you're gonna have to take them bitches off and spread em out to see what length shocks you're working with for sure. You have to be certain what length shocks you have before you go to swapping springs.

rpf500 · Jul 31, 2014

Thanks for the replies guys.

I will try to raise it again and make sure that there are no binds on the links or straps. If I get the same measurements this time, I will pull the shocks off and see what happens then. Maybe I have made an error in measuring. Thanks again. I will report back as soon as I can.

Elliott · Jul 31, 2014

Also might check your 4 link, Ive seen some links installed wrong one time and would bind up and not let the front end drop out, probably not the case here but something to keep in the back of your noggin.

rpf500 · Jul 31, 2014

Ok, I am an idiot. Got you all thinking tho.

Apparently when you droop the suspension, the dual rate slider hides a few inches of shaft from idiots like me.

So, rear shaft at droop =14" and not 12.5" like I said before.

Front has 2 spots so will list both.
shaft to top of spring "cup" = 13.5"
if the cup was gone, it would be 14.5"

So, current coils are 14" with unknown rate. What you guys say is Id go to a 16" bottom spring.

What i can't get my mind around is if i go 16" the preload nuts will go up. A good thing. But, will they go up enough to drop me down in height?

I am trying to figure out where to weigh it. As many 1 ton YJs that are out there you'd think someone would have a "magic" number but i haven't found it.

Any other thoughts? what about an 18" lower? I have the threads to handle it. Maybe a smaller rate, longer spring? Or am i thinking all wrong?

I am still unclear how to set my ride height (say 24" belly just for example) how do you build coilovers around that?

Im really a pretty decent wrench, but this coilover stuff has me really thinking. Live and learn i guess.

TacomaJD · Jul 31, 2014

rpf500 said:
Ok, I am an idiot. Got you all thinking tho.

Apparently when you droop the suspension, the dual rate slider hides a few inches of shaft from idiots like me.

So, rear shaft at droop =14" and not 12.5" like I said before.

Front has 2 spots so will list both.
shaft to top of spring "cup" = 13.5"
if the cup was gone, it would be 14.5"

So, current coils are 14" with unknown rate. What you guys say is Id go to a 16" bottom spring.

What i can't get my mind around is if i go 16" the preload nuts will go up. A good thing. But, will they go up enough to drop me down in height?

I am trying to figure out where to weigh it. As many 1 ton YJs that are out there you'd think someone would have a "magic" number but i haven't found it.

Any other thoughts? what about an 18" lower? I have the threads to handle it. Maybe a smaller rate, longer spring? Or am i thinking all wrong?

I am still unclear how to set my ride height (say 24" belly just for example) how do you build coilovers around that?

Im really a pretty decent wrench, but this coilover stuff has me really thinking. Live and learn i guess.

You measure shaft showing by bottom of the shock body, the length of the shaft, to the stop on the end of the shaft just before the eyelet. I'm guessing that's what you are calling the spring cup, (spring seat). The rule of thumb of having your lower spring 2" longer than shock travel is correct, but that's not all that's gonna fix your problem. You will have to change spring rates, while doing so, ensure that you go with a 2" longer lower spring (16" in your case if they are 14's) and top spring equal to shock travel = 14". So 16 lower and 14 upper. But then you'll have to play with your spring rates to get it right.

This will be difficult to do without knowing what your current spring rates are to kinda set a base line to start from, and without knowing your corner weights. You might be better off calling Jimmy Penner at EOR, send him some pics of your Jeep and tell him all the specs so he can guestimate weight, and buy new springs from him. Springs are not too awful expensive, then if you could figure out what # rating your current springs are, you could turn around and sell them on here pretty easily.

Jimmy is who set mine up for me. I sent him several detailed pics of my rig and specs that are big weight factors, he sent my coilovers with 100/200 springs, was damn close, but ride height was too low, so I swapped the top 100# spring for 150# springs and it's perfect for me now. Mine are 14" Fox coilovers with a 16" lower spring and 14" upper.

Jimmy is the suspension master, but they stay busy so it might take a bit to get ahold of him and for him to give you an answer, but it will be well worth the wait in your situation.

TBItoy · Jul 31, 2014

If you pull your springs off, you can set something on them of known weight and measure how much it compresses.

Lbs per inch.

rpf500 · Aug 1, 2014

Guys,

Thank you!

I will pull them off this weekend. Hopefully I get lucky and can find the weights etched into the springs as mentioned earlier. I will also try to get with EOR.

I will report back when I have some more info. I owe you boys some beer when I see you in Harlan in October!!!

TacomaJD · Aug 1, 2014

rpf500 said:
Guys,

Thank you!

I will pull them off this weekend. Hopefully I get lucky and can find the weights etched into the springs as mentioned earlier. I will also try to get with EOR.

I will report back when I have some more info. I owe you boys some beer when I see you in Harlan in October!!!

Just part of it man, no worries! That's what the forum is for! I've def got my share of help here too. :drinkers:

rpf500 · Aug 1, 2014

Thanks TacomaJD

Got a message in to EOR. will see what they come back with. Im hoping I can find specs on mine this weekend. Doing more reading Im hoping m upper coils are OK, and I just end up needing 4 new lower coils. I feel like they currently work well (comparing to my leafs fwiw) and I just need to get rig lowered

rpf500 · Aug 2, 2014

Some updates.....

Measured once again by taking lower bolts out.

REAR: 13.25 shaft at droop. Is that possible? I figured it would end up an even number.
REAR: lower coils are #350. Uppers are unknown but have to be less because theyare skinnier.

FRONT: 13.5 at droop to the very top of spring seat. The spring seat has an opening in it to slide off shaft. The "seat" is 1" tall. I am NOT counting that part of shaft in my measurement. hope that makes sense.
FRONT: Upper and lower coils are #350

TBItoy · Aug 2, 2014

Re:

So I'd say 14" travel shocks,

350 over 350 is a super high spring rate, especially if you are using a dual rate stop... Like Ford Super Duty springs!

rpf500 · Aug 2, 2014

Re:

TBItoy said:
So I'd say 14" travel shocks,

350 over 350 is a super high spring rate, especially if you are using a dual rate stop... Like Ford Super Duty springs!

I did notice that the dual rate ring is missing on the front CO'S. Figured Id order 2 once i get the other stuff lined out.

I guess next step is to figure out what rate to get. Everyone agree with 16" lowers? Guess I can't reuse the 350# springs anymore? This is adding up $$$ quick.

Any thoughts on rear? It seems "easier" to me. Im thinking if I had 16" lowers back there Id have room to preload still and it sits close to what i need as is.

Not sure where to go next. Try to get with EOR next week.

rpf500 · Aug 3, 2014

Anyone running CO's on a YJ and have specs to share? Buddy I wheel with runs 200/300 in front with a SBC. Im 350/350 thinking I could try a 200/250 to start with. I can't seem to figure out how rate and length correspond.

Meaning, I have 14" #350 lower. Would that be the same (height wise) as say a 16" #300 lower? Hard to explain in text form what Im trying to get at.