ID small chevy

[joshwho?]

Here's another one I have experience with. 1117hp from a 2.0l 4 cylinder at 48 POUNDS OF BOOST that has ran 55 POUNDS OF BOOST. So you're saying that it would've made 1000hp on 6 pounds of boost?

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/a32/Paul-Nelson's-Evolution-Drag-Car/article_info.html

A little while earlier: http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/DSport-Magazine-Cover-Car/t3/articles.html

In the EARLY days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQzXksEx0rM

This car ran a compression ratio of 8.5:1 for the longest time and then 10.5:1
and you're saying that no-one can expect a 75% (made up number on my part (you said 40-50% MAXIMUM)) gain from boost, so you believe that this 2.0l would make 698hp NA? :haha:

 

[Lamar]

Dear group;
There seems to be some confusion regarding boost pressure and PSIA. Lemme 'splain this way:

A dragster using gasoline as it's source of fuel can use a 14-71 blower pushing upwards to 18 PSI of boost. This in turn translates into an engine which can very easily put out over 2,000 horsepower. That's a powerful engine and it's using a maximum of 18 PSI of boost at 6,000 RPMs.

There exists many different types of forced induction systems. The ONLY system which uses boost pressure as it's measurement is a true blower. The Roots style X-71 series blowers are exactly as the name states.

The do NOT compress air, rather they are MOVERS. They are blowers. They do NOT compress air at all, they simply move air from above the carb(s) down to the intake valves.

Centrifugal type compressors are true compressors. These include both the belt driven type and the exhaust gas driven turbo type of compressor. Please note that these types of compressors actually compress the air BEFORE it enters air intake system, be it a carburetor or fuel injectors.

Lastly, there is another type of compressor which outwardly looks like a Roots blower, but internally it's far different. This would be the Whipple compressor, often incorrectly called a Whipple *blower*. This type of system also compresses air.

With a true Roots style blower, boost is not produced until it is needed by the engine. This is because the rotor configuration allows normal intake vacuum to surround and bypass the rotors, thus overtaking them. This is why a vacuum state is almost always present in the intake manifold of a Roots type system.

The key word is ALMOST always. because the blower sits between the carb(s) and the intake, the one factor that determines whether or not the blower is moving air are the carb(s) throttle plates. With the throttle plates closed, the rotors do not have any air to move and thus no boost pressure is achieved.

It's only when the engine is operating under a load or the throttle plates are at WOT is enough air permitted to move thru the carb(s) and thus gets pushed into the intake manifold. The boost pressure which is read on the vac/boost gauge is due to the air which is piling up inside of the manifold.

On the other hand, centrifugal compressors operate a bit differently. Since they are actually compressing air, there needs to be an accurate way to determine the volume of air which is being moved through the engine.

This is determined by the density mass of the air in lbs. per minute. The abbreviation for this is PSIA which means Pounds per Square Inch of Atmosphere. This is decidely different from true boost PRESSURE.

Since the output flow characteristics of a centrifugal compressor must remain fairly constant at all RPMs, using a boost pressure gauge would not accurately tell the operator at what efficiency the engine is operating at. TO sum up, if we were to connect a boost pressure gauge to the intake of a supercharged engine which is using a centrifugal compressor, the pressure would not fluctuate from idle to WOT. If it reads 4 PSI at idle it should read 4 PSI throughout the engine's operating range, which basically tells the operator nothing.

Therefore, engineers have determined that the best way to determine how an engine is operating at any given state is to measure the air flow. They did this by converting the airflow from Cubic Feet per Minute into Air Mass Density in Pounds of Atmosphere.

This must done in this manner because, unlike a Roots type of blower, the engine's intake never has a vacuum state, as the compressor is constantly compressing air and sending it down the line. Therefore, without a vacuum, the engine's operating state cannot be effectively determined by using a vacuum/boost pressure gauge.

in short, if we have a turbocharged engine that was producing 32.5 PSIA on the gauge, if we were to connect an actual boost pressure gauge to the intake manifold it would read between 3.5 and 4 PSI of actual boost. I do hope this clears things up a bit.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[joshwho?]

Here's another example I have experience with 1210hp at 22psi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3nYD7h_LhU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPIhTD0-HWE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24v5gzSJ6N8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQd_gkycZIU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A7hPjoAzE8&feature=related

 

[joshwho?]

Dear group;
Lastly, there is another type of compressor which outwardly looks like a Roots blower, but internally it's far different. This would be the Whipple compressor, often incorrectly called a Whipple *blower*. This type of system also compresses air.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Sorry, but it's a screw compressor or TECHINALLY a Lysholm Compressor :;

 

[Lamar]

Here are some VERY old pictures of the car I have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE WITH. To **** with the nay-sayer(s) even more in did those numbers with a BENT Ryan Crower rod! My buddy owns the car and the day after I assembled the fresh engine his wife walked out and tried to fire it up... she walked out and kicked the key on and the boost referenced fuel pressure regulator diaphram ruptured and filled the tunnel-ram runner directly under the vacuume/boost port full of raw fuel and when she tried to fire it up it cranked and then stopped abruptly even with the gear reduction starter still trying.

http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/...e_info.html?osCsid=bogm8gdcra9opbj6hnug0gj401

Dear joshwho?;
Please, dear God, tell me that you're joking! Yeah, that imported POS can bust 9s. In the 1/8 MILE! Oh lordy, I was breaking 9s in the 1/8 with a 55 Chevy and a 409, some thirty YEARS ago!

1,117 horsepower MY ASS! I might have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night! You guys ever hear of a dyno? Do you have ANY idea what it would take to make a SBC to get past 600 horsepower???

Son, I was working for Connie Kalitta probably about the time that you were born, therefore I don't need you to try and blow sunshine up my azz regarding cars or engines.

And no, you are not pushing 55 lbs. of boost pressure. Go home and actually study up a bit on engines and forced induction systems, then come back and talk to me.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Lamar]

Sorry, but it's a screw compressor or TECHINALLY a Lysholm Compressor :;

Dear joshwho?;
Sorry, but the NHRA and the IHRA call them WHIPPLE compressors.:looser:
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/content.asp?PageID=81
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[joshwho?]

Dear group;
There seems to be some confusion regarding boost pressure and PSIA. Lemme 'splain this way:

in short, if we have a turbocharged engine that was producing 32.5 PSIA on the gauge, if we were to connect an actual boost pressure gauge to the intake manifold it would read between 3.5 and 4 PSI of actual boost. I do hope this clears things up a bit.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Well I don't know anyone that measures ANYWHERE BUT on the engine side of the carb or throttle body (unless it's for testing pressure drop before and after an intercooler), so ALL of the boost pressures I'm speaking of are "AT THE INTAKE MANIFOLD" and that's what's persent ant the entrance of the intake runner.

 

[joshwho?]

Dear joshwho?;
Please, dear God, tell me that you're joking! Yeah, that imported POS can bust 9s. In the 1/8 MILE! Oh lordy, I was breaking 9s in the 1/8 with a 55 Chevy and a 409, some thirty YEARS ago!

1,117 horsepower MY ASS! I might have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night! You guys ever hear of a dyno? Do you have ANY idea what it would take to make a SBC to get past 600 horsepower???

Son, I was working for Connie Kalitta probably about the time that you were born, therefore I don't need you to try and blow sunshine up my azz regarding cars or engines.

And no, you are not pushing 55 lbs. of boost pressure. Go home and actually study up a bit on engines and forced induction systems, then come back and talk to me.
Your friend;
LAMAR

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:
So you're telling me that a car goes LOW 9's at 150 in the 1/8?

 

[joshwho?]

Dear joshwho?;
Please, dear God, tell me that you're joking! Yeah, that imported POS can bust 9s. In the 1/8 MILE! Oh lordy, I was breaking 9s in the 1/8 with a 55 Chevy and a 409, some thirty YEARS ago!

1,117 horsepower MY ASS! I might have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night! You guys ever hear of a dyno? Do you have ANY idea what it would take to make a SBC to get past 600 horsepower???

Son, I was working for Connie Kalitta probably about the time that you were born, therefore I don't need you to try and blow sunshine up my azz regarding cars or engines.

And no, you are not pushing 55 lbs. of boost pressure. Go home and actually study up a bit on engines and forced induction systems, then come back and talk to me.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Here's a car that my buddy owns that's under a year old... it goes 9's IN THE QUARTER and yes, he has a chassis dyno (it's the one in the 1210whp sand truck video), but this is even at a different shop, so you can't try saying that the dyno was doctor'd

http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtremeTurboSystems?blend=2&ob=1#p/u

http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtremeTurboSystems?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/7/UeejadAYKBA

http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtremeTurboSystems?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/6/CMilNKQoOg0

http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtremeTurboSystems?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/10/oMQFKPlsli0
http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtremeTurboSystems?blend=2&ob=1

 

[Lamar]

Dear joshwho?;
OK, one last time. I took the following information from the Blower Drive Service website. The entire Q & A may be found here:
http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/faq.php
These guys have been in business for a few decades, so they should know what they are talking about. To continue:
With the pump gasoline available today, 91-92 octane, can I run a blower on my engine?

With today's low octane pump gasoline, make sure to keep your final engine compression between 12:2 and 12:4 to 1 (refer to the BDS Final Compression Radio Chart). You may want to build an effective quench factor into your engine, because it will have a reduced requirement for octane. Quence is the distance between the top of the piston and the flat part of the combustion chamber. This design limits the detonation potential of your engine.

32 pounds of boost pressure will raise your final CR to over 100:1 !!!:looser:Yo dipstick! Your cylinder heads won't stay on at that sort of compression ratio! Even supercharged DIESEL engines don't come anywhere CLOSE to a 100:1 compression ratio! Get real please.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[boardbysled]

:feedtroll:

 

[joshwho?]

Dear joshwho?;
OK, one last time. I took the following information from the Blower Drive Service website. The entire Q & A may be found here:
http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/faq.php
These guys have been in business for a few decades, so they should know what they are talking about. To continue:
With the pump gasoline available today, 91-92 octane, can I run a blower on my engine?

With today's low octane pump gasoline, make sure to keep your final engine compression between 12:2 and 12:4 to 1 (refer to the BDS Final Compression Radio Chart). You may want to build an effective quench factor into your engine, because it will have a reduced requirement for octane. Quence is the distance between the top of the piston and the flat part of the combustion chamber. This design limits the detonation potential of your engine.

32 pounds of boost pressure will raise your final CR to over 100:1 !!!:looser:Yo dipstick! Your cylinder heads won't stay on at that sort of compression ratio! Even supercharged DIESEL engines don't come anywhere CLOSE to a 100:1 compression ratio! Get real please.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Now I said I was interested in keeping things friendly because it seems you have alot of knowledge and I don't like to be disrespectful.

Now I PERSONALLY know of a 5.9l Cummins that runs 100lbs of boost (measured at the intake manifold), so there's your 100:1 right there. Should I tell him that he should take his rods and pistons out seeing as he has 100:1 without factoring in the engines' CR?

 

[tomsbrokeagain]

:beatdeadhorse:

 

[joshwho?]

Dear joshwho?;
OK, one last time. I took the following information from the Blower Drive Service website. The entire Q & A may be found here:
http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/faq.php
These guys have been in business for a few decades, so they should know what they are talking about. To continue:
With the pump gasoline available today, 91-92 octane, can I run a blower on my engine?

With today's low octane pump gasoline, make sure to keep your final engine compression between 12:2 and 12:4 to 1 (refer to the BDS Final Compression Radio Chart). You may want to build an effective quench factor into your engine, because it will have a reduced requirement for octane. Quence is the distance between the top of the piston and the flat part of the combustion chamber. This design limits the detonation potential of your engine.

32 pounds of boost pressure will raise your final CR to over 100:1 !!!:looser:Yo dipstick! Your cylinder heads won't stay on at that sort of compression ratio! Even supercharged DIESEL engines don't come anywhere CLOSE to a 100:1 compression ratio! Get real please.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Try an intercooler and some TURBO experience rather that bowing to the great BDS compression chart.

 

[joshwho?]

Here's 1009whp on an AWD dyno through that same 2.0l.

Is this fiction? How does it make over 1000whp?

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just wondering what you think about it.

 

[Lamar]

Dear joshwho?;
OK, I just took the time to check the video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtremeTurboSystems?blend=2&ob=1#p/u/7/UeejadAYKBA

and I must inform you that they were racing to the 1/8 mile, and NOT the 1/4 mile! So yeah, the car busted into the upper 9s in the 1/8 with a top speed of 142 MPH, which is pretty goshdarned slow! In fact, I'd be too embarrassed to show at a strip with something like that. If that Evo were in fact turning turning out 765 ponies, it would would literally LAUNCHED itself from the line like a cannon ball. In fact, it'd be unstoppable. It'd need a chute to slow itself down after a run.

Like I said previously, I was busting out 9s in the 1/8 with an OLD TECH 409 big block. To tell you just how old, GMC stopped building the 409 in 1965! Plus, my 55 Chevy prolly weighed twice or even times what that POS Evo weighs.

Ya see, it's not how fast a car can go, it's how fast it gets there. That's what counts. If a car can't get off of the line, it can't win. I don't care how fast it can go, if it's a dog at the line, it's a loser. I'd trade 20 MPH off of the top end just to gain another 1/10 sec off of my 60' times. That 1/10 of a second gain translates into better than two car lengths at the other end of the strip.

The key to street racing is not about horsepower, it's all about torque. Top end horsepower numbers mean squat when you're street racing. It's all about getting the best torque possible and getting it at the lowest RPMs possible.

Horsepower sells car, whereas torque wins races. This is ALWAYS true in acceleration contests.

In fact, IIRC my last BB Chevy could crank out 672 horsepower, but I didn't even concern myself with that stoopid number, because in truth it's nothing but a stoopid number. It's a number for idiots who don't have the first clue what it takes to build a quick car. notice I wrote QUICK car and not a FAST car. There is a HUGE difference between quick and fast.

No, the horsepower numbers didn't mean diddly squat to me. It was 654 ft. lbs. of torque that caught and held my attention.

And now, let's look at the Mitsubishi Evo from a different light for a second.

The guy claims it is making 675 HP. OK, since we know the weight of a stock Evo is around 3,000 lbs. and we also know the calculated HP of the engine is 675 HP, we can therefore calculate the ride's top 1/8 and 1/4 ETs within about 1/5 of a second either way. The ride should be running:
6.19 in the 1/8 @ 111.6 MPH
9.65 in the 1/4 @ 139.5 MPH

In reality, the car ran a 9.94 ET in the 1/8 at 142 MPH. In the 1/4, it's calculated finish would be in the high 13s. Therefore, don't believe everything that people tell you. I've been racing for a day or two and after a while I can start to spot BS when I see it.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Lamar]

Dear joshwho?;
By the way, that strip looked familiar to me. I recall a strip just like that one which had a couple of small rolling hills that started from the middle of the track to the finish line. It was just a bit south of Seattle IIRC. Beautiful strip, but always wet.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Binder]

OH! You beat me to it! :haha:

I beat you both to it, that's my point...Josh what Lamar is trying to explain is correct. In laymens terms (what I understand better) pump gas can only be compressed so much before it will ignite from the rising temperature from being compressed. Forced induction vs static compression is a ballancing game. The higher the compression the lower the boost has to be to keep the cylinder pressure in check. If that 35 PSI was really getting into the cylinders the static compression would have to be so low that it may not be physically possible with a 4" bore and 3 1/2" stroke. My guess is that there is too much obstruction for the mixture entering the cylinders. The boost is very high because it's backing up rather than entering the cylinders....Something is definately wrong or the engine likely wouldn't even run. Certainly not run well.

 

[Binder]

The key to street racing is not about horsepower, it's all about torque. Top end horsepower numbers mean squat when you're street racing. It's all about getting the best torque possible and getting it at the lowest RPMs possible.

Horsepower sells car, whereas torque wins races. This is ALWAYS true in acceleration contests.

I disargee with you 100% on this but I'll leave that for a different thread.:;

 

[Lamar]

Dear joshwho?;
if you want to see a REAL no rules, no holds barred, heads up, strictly run what ya brung, drag strip, google *YELLO BELLY DRAGSTRIP*. That strip has been around since before I was alive and it's still a no rules, *give the man yer money and take yer chances* drag strip. Oh yeah, there was one rule. Take your beer off of the dash or they won't let you race. And that was about it for the rule book. This is where I learned how to drag race at.
Your friend;
LAMAR