Reiter Map from focus meeting

[japerry]

I agree that would be great, but I am willing to bet they designate it categorically like Elbe, and a certain percentage of trails for each of the four groups, easy, mild, difficult, and extreme, so out of the "new" trails what percentage of them will be as hard as the original trail system? 50% maybe, IDK, but that seems like a logical answer, so you have a trail system reduced 50%, and then half of that 50% will represent what was lost. So realistically you cold end up with 5,000 wheelers jammed into two miles of trail. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

I think previous worries are going away. Some interesting differences here..

1) This is the first time DNR has built an ENTIRELY NEW trail system for 4x4s. Besides the rock garden (which isn't really a trail), we'll see new trails. Its looking like this will look nothing like anything else DNR has ever done

2) The DNR, and environmentalists are taking notice of the work 4x4 users are doing at the work parties. Most are impressed with our efforts

3) Once Reiter gets opened, enviros will disappear. They aren't at walker, they aren't at Elbe, etc. They will only fight the process. Once the place is open, they will drop their fight, because its no longer a grey area.

4) I'm confident that the plan laid out will be quite neat. :awesomework: and we will get what we want.

 

[crazybluerider1]

They aren't at walker, they aren't at Elbe, etc.

Wrong. Try again.

 

[crash2]

I think previous worries are going away. Some interesting differences here..

1) This is the first time DNR has built an ENTIRELY NEW trail system for 4x4s. Besides the rock garden (which isn't really a trail), we'll see new trails. Its looking like this will look nothing like anything else DNR has ever done

2) The DNR, and environmentalists are taking notice of the work 4x4 users are doing at the work parties. Most are impressed with our efforts

3) Once Reiter gets opened, enviros will disappear. They aren't at walker, they aren't at Elbe, etc. They will only fight the process. Once the place is open, they will drop their fight, because its no longer a grey area.

4) I'm confident that the plan laid out will be quite neat. :awesomework: and we will get what we want.

Its what we are hoping/pushing for.....

 

[Money Mark]

Wrong. Try again.

This is pointless comment. Pointless meaning, you didn't make your point. You obviously just don't agree with Jakob statements.

So what does your comment really mean? What are you trying to convey to us?

 

[Money Mark]

I just don't think that the DNR is prepared for what is going to happen.

They don't.....

Hopefully I'm wrong though.

.....and you're not.

I agree with your points Jay, but I don't agree with your attitude. I WANT to see how this will turn out.

And.......Logic = government? :eeek: No. Why would a political person like yourself even fathom logic could take place?:haha:





You are trying to make folks think.....cudos.

I'm trying to make them act.:;

 

[crazybluerider1]

This is pointless comment. Pointless meaning, you didn't make your point. You obviously just don't agree with Jakob statements.

So what does your comment really mean? What are you trying to convey to us?

I have seen and we have had complaints from "enviros" in Elbe.

Fixing the area and making it legit will not keep them out.

 

[japerry]

I have seen and we have had complaints from "enviros" in Elbe.

Fixing the area and making it legit will not keep them out.

Complaints are different from campaigns or trying to get it shut down. Walker and Elbe are legally provisioned. That means Enviros would have to get substantial evidence to show massive violations of their lease agreement (with themselves) and/or state environmental law. Speaking for walker, we're pretty darned cleaned up. And Elbe doesn't look at that bad either when I visited.

I haven't seen that occur at all at Walker in the past few years of being there. Once the enviros loose, they'll effectively go away, and at best be a blathering voice that no one listens too.

We need to focus our efforts on supporting reiter, and fighting point-by-point anything the enviros throw at us. whomever has the correct scientific data will win. But I'm confident that 'my guy' at Reiter is pretty darn sharp when it comes to the science behind trail building :awesomework:

 

[Money Mark]

I have seen and we have had complaints from "enviros" in Elbe.

Fixing the area and making it legit will not keep them out.

Ok, then since we agree the "enviros" will never be happy, why don't we focus our efforts on things we DO have control over.:awesomework:

I hate to see folks waste their time worrying about the past and try to appease folks that "we" can not appease.

So many folks scream "**** the Eco-Nazi's!" yet these same folks focus a great deal of energy trying to make them happy. Do you get some kind of satisfaction making people that want you out of the woods, happy? I don't.:;

Let them fight their fight.......I've "left the room". My mindset is all about wheeling. And wheeling only.:;

 

[crash2]

Will we keep the enviro nazi's out--not at all.

If we play by the rules can we keep them at bay

oh ya....

 

[crazybluerider1]

Ok, then since we agree the "enviros" will never be happy, why don't we focus our efforts on things we DO have control over.:awesomework:

I hate to see folks waste their time worrying about the past and try to appease folks that "we" can not appease.

So many folks scream "**** the Eco-Nazi's!" yet these same folks focus a great deal of energy trying to make them happy. Do you get some kind of satisfaction making people that want you out of the woods, happy? I don't.:;

Let them fight their fight.......I've "left the room". My mindset is all about wheeling. And wheeling only.:;

We're on the same page man. I was just stating that you will never be able to stop the hippies and econazi's from trying to cause issues. We must always remember that they are always watching us. Screw making them happy but at the same time don't give them ammo that they can use to lock us out.

 

[Money Mark]

:awesomework:

We're moving forward.

 

[japerry]

Screw making them happy but at the same time don't give them ammo that they can use to lock us out.

:awesomework: exactly. Work Parties, not blazing new trail, etc. Thats how we 'disarm' the hippies.

 

[The_Shocker]

http://freepdfhosting.com/f905f9da10.pdf


Here's a better copy of that draft trail map you posted.

 

[Damnyankee]

you know what?

as long as i have a different place to go see my buds, have a beer and go wheeling..

I'm a happy man..

Yup, i'm easy.

 

[98ZJ4X4]

This is kind of long winded, but I don't care!!

Reiter Foothills from this 4x4 Wheelers Perspective

As the owner/operator of a 4x4 and past user of the Trails in the Reiter Foothills, I would like to present my current perspective on the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and the Restoration and Future Off-Road Vehicle use in this area.

1. Yes, I saw some small areas where I would agree that Environmental Damage had occurred.

2. Yes, I could see areas where trail crossings were putting sediment into waterways that could maybe be carried to Salmon Spawning areas, but I did not see any crossings of Salmon Spawning Streams.

3. Yes, I saw some damage to Trees and Tree Roots, but I did not see any trees dying from this damage.

While I did not and do not agree with the overall assessment of damage and potential for damage caused by ORV use of the area, I could understand the closure of the area by DNR based upon their assessments and the pressures brought to bear by Anti-ORV Groups.

I had, along with many others started to work with DNR to correct and mitigate areas of concern long before any closures at Reiter was established, and continued to do so when some areas were closed prior to the total closure of the Reiter Foothills to ORV use. During that time it became oblivious (to me anyway) that DNR was receiving enormous amounts of pressure from Anti-ORV Groups, as well as their own assessments of environmental damage and that there was no way that DNR could make everyone happy regardless of what they did.

Regardless of the details of how it came about DNR felt the best way to handle the problems was to totally close the Reiter Foothills to ORV use. There were a number of impacts to this closure that we are still trying to access today.

1. I would estimate that in the area of 1,000 ORV users visited Reiter Foothills per Months during the winter and closer to 2,000 per Month during the Summer Months. A lot of these ORV users came from all parts of the state and would also camp for the weekend at Reiter Foothills.
Where did all these displaced ORV Users go? No one is 100% sure and never will be.

2. When the ORV Users were displaced Thousands of dollars that came into the local business

 

[The_Shocker]

Well said Ted! :awesomework:

 

[Money Mark]

It's a gate keeper for new trails. Eric will explain.

 

[Eric]

Thanks Mark

So if you take some heavy cheap steel such as old rail road track to construct somthing like this you can make a gate keeper that will hold up.


Basic Idea is if you cant fit between the side posts then you are two wide.

If you cant clear the center axle catch you need bigger tires. (will have to figure out what is good but I would say something like a 9inch tall shelf would work, need measurements)

In the tire area if you have angled steel, think about biclcyle trying to ride acrous a rail road crossing, most motorcylcles are not going to want to drop a tire into the groove and do a super man. But a wheeler will drive over the gaps.

I know rocks will be stacked but thats a differnt issue. The gate keeper will not change with time. It will stay very close to the same. And kicking rocks out is much easier then making a new gate keeper.


THis would be good for the extreme trails to keep the moto cyles and the side by side and atvs mostly out, or at least not make it easy. I know a high lift and some time will also get you thru in most cases but its a good time for some education when you see some one trying.

If you ramp the back or put some sort of slider on it you can always drag a broken rig out, but a 90 or even under cut on the aproch side will stop most incoming traffic. Think about the parking lot tire puncture devices. And dont plate the back side, make it so small tires fall into the cracks.


I think that is the basics. There could also be a gate with a lock put on one side for future acess with equipment.

If we can get enough cheap steel, they will also work for keeping the 4x4 off of the single track. Walker vally does have those set up decently.


My thoughts are to make something that can be beat hard and not care. If you cant drive thru the gate keeper easily but you have the skill to make it with fancy driving the you should be allowed in.

Sorry for bad spelling, but there is an idea.

 

[Money Mark]

I like it.:awesomework:

 

[nowires]

Looks good
I like minds at work