Someone bring me up to snuff on Toyota axles

[Neal3000]

tons under a ultra light buggy would be kinda retarded, those yota axles will be awesome for that. Do the 5th knuckle stud mod, get rcv's (fawk trailgear) hub flanges, truss them up to the max and rock out. Those 60 axles all have 3.73 gears in them, that might actually be perfect if your doing a transaxle rig. i never broke anything in my axles when i used to have those gears. Fwiw, my fj axles held up great for a few years with a sbc, doubler, and 39.5 iroks but then i think the housing (trussed) got warped from racing (jumping) and i started breaking stuff every single time i drove it.

 

[Stretch]

I was going to echo pretty much what clemsonjeep said. Know its limits and youll be fine on the Toy axles. My last one only got Ton's because I was bored and wanted to build something different that I hadn't done before. There are a ton of guys in our group here in NC that all run and punish Toy axles with very few failures, and they aren't easy on them. Every now and then someone will kill a ring gear, but most havent had a single issue since having ECGS build their 3rds. Most of us that run 4.10 geared stuff just grab another junkyard third, give it a once over and roll out IF it breaks.

My last one had ARP hardware in the knuckles, 4stud arms, Nitro 30spline chromos and hub gears, 4.10 aussie locked diff and I was pretty rough on it on 36iroks and then 38 TN cut TSL's. Bone stock welded 4.10 IFS rear out back and I rode 1-2x a month usually all over Harlan, Callalantee and private land. I went through a spell of broken steering studs and that was the only issue I had, mainly because that was during a period where I wheeled 4-5x in 7 weeks one spring and admittedly I was lazy about checking stuff between rides unless something catastrophic let go. It just had a tired carb'd then propane 22r pushing it.

I did like the tons simply because I could beat it like a $2 hooker all weekend once I got the bugs sorted out but it went much better with a lighter axle/tire combo. This next time around I'll be sticking with minitruck or fj80 axles, whatever I find a better deal on.

 

[matth_85]

There is a lot of info on the Toyota Bible in the first gen section on Pirate, or used to be. Pretty much any gear, axle, brake info you would need.

My opinion:
Keep the weight down, they can live.

Horsepower and big tires will strip pinions.

Weight and heavy foot will strip ring gears.

That's for mini truck stuff

I switched to the FJ 62 axles in my 4runner and never broke another ring gear.

I would keep stock gearing and run the Longs for the FJ 60 axle. I know there is not much info on the net about the 60 axles but they are really no different than a mini truck less the big ring gear. It is to my understanding that the Mini truck and FJ 80 birf are very close in strength when you go to the long so you don't actually gain much. Also, truss the **** out of them around the knuckle ball, they bend pretty easy.

 

[kmcminn]

Had great luck 4.10 gears, grooved 38 sxs.

 

[TBItoy]

Also, truss the **** out of them around the knuckle ball, they bend pretty easy.

Absolutely!

And the knuckle balls can/will break off in the neck down spot if you are REAL rough on them (jumping, smashing ledges WFO, etc)

 

[B.DRAKE]

Had great luck 4.10 gears, grooved 38 sxs.

Yea all besides keeping it on the tires!

 

[TacomaJD]

Re: Re: Re: Someone bring me up to snuff on Toyota axles

It is to my understanding that the Mini truck and FJ 80 birf are very close in strength when you go to the long so you don't actually gain much.

Explanation? I would figure by being 40% larger, the FJ80 chromo birf would **** on mini truck chromo birfs.

 

[patooyee]

Absolutely!

And the knuckle balls can/will break off in the neck down spot if you are REAL rough on them (jumping, smashing ledges WFO, etc)

I saw a cut away view of an inner knuckle sleeve on Pirate last night and can't find it now. What is the best way to truss the knuckle area without loosing steering?

I bought these axles because I didn't want the weight of 60's and the plan for this rig is to be so light that 60's wouldn't be necessary. I'm looking forward to working on something different that doesn't weigh 800 lbs and require a fork lift to move around. I'm bound and determined to make them work even if that eventually means putting 80 outers on them. I will truss the ever loving **** out of them, too.

The genesis of this thread was that some people I had been talking to were just automatically like, "Oh, you got Toyota axles, when are you putting 80 knuckles on them?" Like its something that all Toyota people just automatically do. I knew I had been out of the little axle game for a long time but it didn't seem to me that it was just an automatic thing like that. I mean, 80 front ends aren't just sitting around on every corner. There's got to be probably one 80 front for every thousand 40/60/62/mini front ends out there so if swapping 80 outers was such a common practice you would think that SOMEONE would be selling an aftermarket ball. (Which they should, BTW.)

I think I'm going to try running the 60-series RCV's and plating the stock knuckles, coming up with a better steering arm of some sort that ties into more than just the top studs, and giving that a try. If issues arise I will start looking for 80 outers.

 

[TBItoy]

I saw a cut away view of an inner knuckle sleeve on Pirate last night and can't find it now. What is the best way to truss the knuckle area without loosing steering?

I bought these axles because I didn't want the weight of 60's and the plan for this rig is to be so light that 60's wouldn't be necessary. I'm looking forward to working on something different that doesn't weigh 800 lbs and require a fork lift to move around. I'm bound and determined to make them work even if that eventually means putting 80 outers on them. I will truss the ever loving **** out of them, too.

The genesis of this thread was that some people I had been talking to were just automatically like, "Oh, you got Toyota axles, when are you putting 80 knuckles on them?" Like its something that all Toyota people just automatically do. I knew I had been out of the little axle game for a long time but it didn't seem to me that it was just an automatic thing like that. I mean, 80 front ends aren't just sitting around on every corner. There's got to be probably one 80 front for every thousand 40/60/62/mini front ends out there so if swapping 80 outers was such a common practice you would think that SOMEONE would be selling an aftermarket ball. (Which they should, BTW.)

I think I'm going to try running the 60-series RCV's and plating the stock knuckles, coming up with a better steering arm of some sort that ties into more than just the top studs, and giving that a try. If issues arise I will start looking for 80 outers.

80 routers are just one of those things that most yota guys have a hard on for, but very few have actually used, or even seen nonetheless...

Also, build the axle truss from appropriate material... no need for 3/8 and 1/4 thick trusses welded to an 1/8 by housing.

Barnes4wd has some pretty cool brackets and trusses made from 3/16 xt100 steel.

I cut my knuckle ball guests from the corner of a piece of tube for the bottom, and on top just a piece of flat steel and tie them into the shock mount or truss. The kingpin inclination leaves more room on the bottom of the ball for reinforcing

 

[TacomaJD]

Figure out a way to make some custom coilover lower mount tabs that double as axle ball gussets!

 

[TBItoy]

Figure out a way to make some custom coilover lower mount tabs that double as axle ball gussets!

Like this

 

[TacomaJD]

Re:

Ding ding ding!

 

[matth_85]

Re: Re: Re: Someone bring me up to snuff on Toyota axles

Explanation? I would figure by being 40% larger, the FJ80 chromo birf would **** on mini truck chromo birfs.

I read it on the internets, it has to be true. No I think it was in one of those strength tests but I don't am not sure. Been a while since I messed with Toyota stuff.

 

[patooyee]

Regardless, the biggest shaft you can get for either is 30-spline, so if the shaft is already the weak link upgrading to 80 outers does nothing for you.

Although I have read that there are ways to get custom 35-spline shafts into the FJ 9.5 difs.

 

[Neal3000]

Regardless, the biggest shaft you can get for either is 30-spline, so if the shaft is already the weak link upgrading to 80 outers does nothing for you.

Although I have read that there are ways to get custom 35-spline shafts into the FJ 9.5 difs.

Exactly how ive always seen it too, plus there are the weird knuckles and expensive hi-steer issues with those bigger birfs

On the 35 spline shafts, it has been done but after you broach out the side gears of your locker there is hardly any meat left there. Ive broken two detroits at that point with 30 spline so i hate to think how weak that would make that area. The best thing to do would be to use a ford 9 center section, but at that point i would say fawk it and use dana50 outers

 

[Stretch]

If you plan on putting FJ80 knuckle balls and knuckles on it, just prepare to drop $975 on Hellfire Fabworks knuckles to get high steer. Otherwise just find a RHD steering arm and with a double ended ram its relatively out of the way. For a project with no deadline, I dig the idea of the 9.5" ring gear and an FJ80 outer. I can see it holding up to a 2/3RZ, Turbo 22r, Ecotec or something along those lines. Anything can be broken, but sub 225HP and sub 3000lb on 37" stickies would be a goin lil sombitch and pretty reliable as long as you don't try and go hill killin in it.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fj80-front-axle-swap-w-full-hydro-into-a-mini-truck.332442/

 

[TacomaJD]

Re:

I say run the factory fj60's, upgrade to RCV shafts, if they break, who gives a ****, you get free replacements for life or until RCV closes their doors/sells out. If you get tired of replacing shafts, go to tons.

There's a guy on here that had a set of tons he wanted to trade for Toyota running gear and I would have straight jumped on that if I had the extra $$$ to have them installed on my rig and put good parts in em. I need some damn tools so I can start doing all that myself!

What's really the problem with the weight of tons? I've never understood why unsprung weight is a problem? Especially with a lightweight rig. More weight lower to the ground = more stable on off camber ground!

 

[zayne2427]

Ah, yes, I recognize the buggy now. I like that rig.

On this supercharged rear engine buggy I think the front axle has survived mainly because there isn't any weight up there and it isn't on the ground a whole lot. It is supposed to be just under 3k lbs and with the mid/rear engine set up it has a real nice center of gravity but keeps the front light enough that there isn't much stress except when landing. I originally bought the buggy for my wife and to use while my single Seater is down getting tcase upgraded but my wife is pregnant so I have been riding it a good bit and I have had as much or more fun in this thing than any of my other buggies. Lightweight is fun if built right. Mine is running 4.10 gears and does have a built flipped 9" rear with 35 spline Currie axles.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrEQM3KF5O4

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re:

I say run the factory fj60's, upgrade to RCV shafts, if they break, who gives a ****, you get free replacements for life or until RCV closes their doors/sells out. If you get tired of replacing shafts, go to tons.

There's a guy on here that had a set of tons he wanted to trade for Toyota running gear and I would have straight jumped on that if I had the extra $$$ to have them installed on my rig and put good parts in em. I need some damn tools so I can start doing all that myself!

What's really the problem with the weight of tons? I've never understood why unsprung weight is a problem? Especially with a lightweight rig. More weight lower to the ground = more stable on off camber ground!

Unsprung weight isn't really a problem, especially for slow crawl only rigs. But as soon as you pick up the pace, the unsprung weight becomes hard to control with a light chassis/drivetrain.

It makes the tail wag the dog so to speak

 

[TacomaJD]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

Unsprung weight isn't really a problem, especially for slow crawl only rigs. But as soon as you pick up the pace, the unsprung weight becomes hard to control with a light chassis/drivetrain.

It makes the tail wag the dog so to speak

I see what you're saying. Like on down travel over fast stuff, it would travel down quicker due to extra mass/gravity, jerking the chassis down with it, and so on.

What's the intent for wheeling style of new rig? Slow, fast, mild mix of both?

I just wanna go slowwww like a 80 year old man headed to the shitter, and make it look easy