Re: Mash yer motor - Csc fab buggy
Ya'll have to bare with me a bit...I've been up since 1:30 yesterday afternoon and worked 12hrs last night. This never would have been seen on a public forum had it not happened to someone else. Actually, I thought a lot of Labronn right up to the end of our deal. After we first met, we always talked for a while when we ran into each other out riding. I even made a trip down there one day to visit his shop and discuss a separate build. I assumed we were friends. This isn't a bashing or bitch fest. This is someone who's been in Jon's shoes. I feel mine relates to Jon's because there were missteps in both. Jon isn't just making stuff up. This post is meant to show that this isn't the first time it's happened.
With a similar experience, (poor craftsmanship, being told things that never happen, dodging fault and budget issues) I have no doubt what Jon has said is true. His story is pretty much the same since we first spoke. I can certainly see Mr. Andrews being told something different than what actually happened. It happened to me also.
Well....I'll start by saying I have never met face to face with Jon or Alisha Andrews. We have had many conversations on the phone and through text though. They contacted me after their experience with CSC Fab/Labronn to ask about mine. Since our stories seemed similar, a mutual friend put them in contact with me.
I too paid a bunch of money and didn't get the quality you'd expect from a professional shop. To be exact: $19,940.11
$11,000 labor
$2,000 in powder coat
The rest in parts I assume....He had some new software that he would inventory my parts in, figure out what I needed, and list those as well. After that, we would make a contract. I still haven't seen a parts list or contract. Matter of fact, I never had access to this online software until I got my bill on Sept. 20 2013. I had a buggy in boxes basically...A truck bed full. In my mind we were friends and I was content to let him sort it out and see what we needed. Post it in his software, make a contract and get it finished.
Originally, our deal was $4-5,000 in labor to get it finished out. This estimate was made by him over the phone after reviewing a description and pictures. Standing on my trailer, looking it over, before we unloaded the first piece, he asked what I wanted to spend. I said I'd like to be in the $10,000 range. He never varied from his original quote, I thought we were good. With his labor estimate, what parts I thought I needed, I figured we'd hit closer to $13-14k all done...No problem. I wanted a nice shifter, added about 25' of tube, roof panels and switched to powder coat over paint. I nearly stroked when I saw $20k though. Little did I know what was coming after that...
After the initial shock, I was kinda getting ok with it because I had a really nice buggy I could be proud of. (I hadn't seen it yet, my text request for pictures was ignored...Just nothing.)
Well...We went to get it. Some of you have been there, some haven't . There's a huge amount of excitement when you and your wife are getting an awesome new buggy...So much so, you can't sleep the night before. We loaded up and make the 3-4 hour trip. Hop out of the truck and head in. It's at this point I know something is very wrong. My heart sank and my head dropped. I looked over at my wife and she's just shaking her head. We walk around it and she asks if I'm ok, "nope", she heads back to the truck.
So Labronn walks up and says what do you think? "Powder coat looks good." was all I could get out.
I point out a couple things, they're scrambling around trying to get me gone. I had just spent $20k and the engine didn't even have an air filter on it. His guy had to go get a part from the store to do it.
I drove around the lot and loaded it on the trailer. Labronn walked out when I was tightening the last strap to see if I needed help. (get his check)
Before I handed it to him I said this isn't $11,000 worth of labor. His reply: "oh yes it is and more I didn't charge you for." So...To me, that means we're done here. I left.
Over the next couple weeks I looked the buggy over, making a list of items that needed done, redone, etc.
This is the list of things that needed done, not completed as requested, billed and not done, or done incorrectly.
Remove engine for proper preparation and painting. (Installed dirty, half painted with incorrect paint, rusty pulleys)
Remove, box, and ship or deliver exhaust system to a coater for ceramic coating.
New hydraulic hose for steering. Current one is too short and is kinked in a bend.
Dismount tires, remove plastic bag from sealing surface, remount.
Remove rear steering ram to install a bolt left out of axle housing. (Causing a leak.)
Remove both front and rear ram ends to be powdercoated. (left rusted)
Remove skid plate to tighten bolts left loose. (Found hand tight bolts everywhere. Each bolt on the buggy will have to be checked/retightened.)
Counter sink bolts in skid plate to prevent damage. Use new, correct hardware during reinstall.
Remove axles from buggy for correct stripping and painting. Military paint was painted over, new paint is peeling off in several places already.
Several bolts are missing on the axle housings. These are causing leaks. Replace bolts. Refill with gear fluid.
Remove interior. Have correct coating applied. (requested bedliner on interior parts) Reinstall.
Replace missing hardware on shifter inside buggy. Missing nuts and keeper on shifter cable.
Remove all sheetmetal, have clearcoated as requested, reinstall with the correct stainless steel button head bolts. Repowder any damaged sheetmetal due to not clearcoating the first time.
Remove ALL zipties and replace with rubber coated clamps to prevent premature wear and failure.
Remove safety harness uppers and route them through the seats the proper way.
Remove gear shifter cable spacer, powdercoat, reinstall. (left bare metal, rusted.)
Remove "aluminum tape" from hoses. Install correct covers to protect hoses from heat, etc.
Replace link bolts (and others) with the correct length. Most are 1-2" too long.
Build and powdercoat new battery box. Current one has no protection on the back. Also, needs a padded hold down to prevent wear damage.
Drain and remove fuel tank for clearcoat.
Build winch mount and powdercoat for front axle. Install.
Add lights, wiring, and mounts. (without damaging powdercoat already on the buggy.)
Remove anti-rock, polish, reinstall.
Add vent filter to Atlas transfer case to prevent dirt and water from entering case.
Have machine shop make knobs for Atlas shifter handles.
Remove driveshafts, paint, reinstall. (front is missing grease cap, have one made.)
Add fire extinguishers. (Driver and passenger side.)
Powdercoat transmission cooler mount. (left raw metal)
Replace steam port hose from head to water pump. Use proper clamp. Leaking, and sucking air into cooling system. Causing overheating issues.
Powdercoat engine accessory mounts. (alternator and hydraulic steering mounts left bare steel)
Here's a couple pictures from when I got home:
Labronn did offer to fix "most' of it. I refused. Wife and I discussed it...We agreed that us nor the buggy had any business back at his shop. I knew there would be a charge for something...even a hose clamp. I had given all the money to him I cared to. Plus I was told that there was stuff I didn't get charged for already when I left the first time...Didn't need another surprise.
So...Yes I know exactly where the Andrews are coming from.
Some have pointed out "You get what you pay for" Yes, you do...At what dollar amount should you expect quality? I'm almost certain I spent more than the Andrews...Does that list or those pictures reflect a quality product? Maybe I'm wrong here...Did I set my expectations too high for the dollar amount I spent? Did I let myself down? I don't think so...I've been wrong before though.
Some of you say I'd do this or that. Trust me...You don't know till you're in the situation. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.
JohnG...I hope you don't think this is "bashing". I certainly didn't mean for it to come off that way...I've been up a while though.
Labronn....This is prolly gonna make you mad. I hate that. I hate I lost you as a friend. (though I suspect the feeling wasn't mutual none of the time though.) I don't want anything from you, not even an apology. You're the shop owner and I'm not really anybody...But...I'd suggest a little better quality control. If you truly didn't know about their chassis being that bad, there's a problem. No matter who's at fault, it rests on you. We've all seen what can come out of your shop. In my opinion, you fumbled these two.
