I said nothing of pnw4wda... but there are groups that think things are too easy and others that think things are to hard... If you are a wheeler you should 100% support a project whether you agree or don't! If you don't agree with how the project is being implemented than you should get physical involved to effect change. If you are not willing to get involved you still need to 100% support the project and those will to be involved.
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
WA DNR Trail Policy Public Meetings
- Thread starter japerry
- Start date
This is exactly why I support what's going on at Elbe and reiter as well as all of the other areas including easier trails like copper city (just reopened)
ain'tstuckjustresting
RIP Mister 12/5/12
Really? Statements like that are part of what alienates some of us from the PNW. You feel that if we aren't part of the PNW4WDA that we don't care? That we are lazy? I think we have proven differently. There were more non-members at the last trail policy meeting than members. I don't need you looking down your nose at me because I wheel a beat ass Toyota and spend my "free" time doing what I find to be productive.
Really? Statements like that are part of what alienates some of us from the PNW. You feel that if we aren't part of the PNW4WDA that we don't care? That we are lazy? I think we have proven differently. There were more non-members at the last trail policy meeting than members. I don't need you looking down your nose at me because I wheel a beat ass Toyota and spend my "free" time doing what I find to be productive.
Way to take thing out of context chad. My statement was actually aimed at our own members / and non members who like to complain about the status qou within the PNW. Aren't you one of the people that have complained about the lack of people le at the elbe workpartys ?
I would think that of all people you would understand where I am coming from. Fact is people will come up with any excuse to find a reason to not participate wether it be politics or simply attending work parties to take care of our trails but yet you will see these same people wheeling almost every weekend :
I was glad to see your members at the last meeting but let's examin the facts. There was no email mailing from the DNR to announce the new meeting. If it hadn't been for Jakob's post on here would you even have known about it ? I wouldn't have. And aren't we all in this together ? This is always my point when trying to explain why we need to belong to the pnw4wda. Strength in numbers ba bla bla. I don't look down my nose at anybody because of what they drive. To each their own. You like toyotas and I like jeeps and we both like trails to recreate on. Let's try working together for the betterment of the sport :awesomework:
That's to bad Anthony because you are worth my time and that's why I spend so much time making sure our trails stay open. Bottom line is until we all learn to put out own biases aside and come together as one huge group then were doomed to keep just trying to stay afloat.
Attachments
I'm not going to waist my time posting how I feel about the PNW4WD on a public forum. :awesomework:
The next time I see you I will take a few minutes of my valuable time away from volunteering and explain to you how I feel.
The next time I see you I will take a few minutes of my valuable time away from volunteering and explain to you how I feel.
That cool. Just remember that its because of the pnw4wda and it members that you get to volunteer or have anything to volunteer for (4x4trails)
ain'tstuckjustresting
RIP Mister 12/5/12
One of these days your soapbox is going to break and you'll fall on your can.
YotaDude1997
Well-Known Member
Pokey....You helped in the past. You are no longer helping.
Silence…the answer for you is silence.
Silence…the answer for you is silence.
ain'tstuckjustresting
RIP Mister 12/5/12
I have to be honest, though I don't see eye to eye with Jim on a few subjects he still is donating his personal time to be a voice for the OHV crowd. Saying he isn't helping is plain wrong. If he didn't do it we would have no voice at all. I don't disparage him for what he does in Olympia, just the way he recruits to the PNW.
The_Shocker
Well-Known Member
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The only way to effect change in the organization is to join and volunteer. The PNW4WDA and WOHVA are the main voices for us in Olympia and throughout the State. On a club level or even an individual level we are just a whisper. We need to make these Statewide organizations as strong as possible in order to have our needs shouted to the people in charge. We all have slightly different views on what our sport should be, but we are all ORV enthusiasts and need to have one STRONG voice.
And to the original post, Thank you Jakob, Jim, and all those that have helped with the Trails Policy.
And to the original post, Thank you Jakob, Jim, and all those that have helped with the Trails Policy.
japerry
Well-Known Member
I'm still trying to figure out how to put in words exactly my issues with the PNW4WDA and/or most of its member clubs, as a previous member. Unfortunately Jim, there are no clubs I've found yet in the PNW that would sanction or support the ideas I proposed my blog.
Actually, quite the contrary. Down here in the south, Pistons Wild is acting as trail police through forest watch. While its great to be going after dumpers and illegal shooting, they also go after the user-built trails and helped DNR close the trails before new ones were open.
Yacolt was never officially closed to 4x4 use, unlike Reiter. But DNR didn't have to! Because Piston's Wild is so gung-ho to be do-gooders, they closed the forest for them! PW voiced their disgust about how the DNR police aren't strict enough on 4x4 use, its like they're throwing the rest of the community under the bus.
And I've heard this story countless times on the forums and in person in other areas, about how the 'user built trails' are the 10% of bad apples. No they aren't. the 10% are people going through wetlands, sensitive areas, and behind closed gates. The 10% are people shutting down the forest voluntarily.
I'd love to see the PNW accepting user-built trails, much like Evergreen Mtn bike alliance did for mtn bike trails. Until then, I can't support them.
PS -- If you liked what I wrote, please tell [email protected]. They do react to user input, seriously!
Actually, quite the contrary. Down here in the south, Pistons Wild is acting as trail police through forest watch. While its great to be going after dumpers and illegal shooting, they also go after the user-built trails and helped DNR close the trails before new ones were open.
Yacolt was never officially closed to 4x4 use, unlike Reiter. But DNR didn't have to! Because Piston's Wild is so gung-ho to be do-gooders, they closed the forest for them! PW voiced their disgust about how the DNR police aren't strict enough on 4x4 use, its like they're throwing the rest of the community under the bus.
And I've heard this story countless times on the forums and in person in other areas, about how the 'user built trails' are the 10% of bad apples. No they aren't. the 10% are people going through wetlands, sensitive areas, and behind closed gates. The 10% are people shutting down the forest voluntarily.
I'd love to see the PNW accepting user-built trails, much like Evergreen Mtn bike alliance did for mtn bike trails. Until then, I can't support them.
PS -- If you liked what I wrote, please tell [email protected]. They do react to user input, seriously!
thank you jakob
Your more than welcome to try and change the way user built trails are managed by the DNR but please quit sending us backwards by trying to interfere with what PW is doing in the Yacolt burn area. Great things are about to happen and we don't need another North fork fiasco like you caused up north.
skinny_pedal
Well-Known Member
And what are you doing? I don't always agree with Jim. But he is there for us the users. I don't ever attend the DNR meetings. But at the Forest Service meetings, if your not in the PNW. You have no voice for the wheeling community.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from the width "suggestions" that the PNW made for US at Elbe.
Luckily the REAL users of Elbe STOOD UP for THEMSELVES.
We knew damn well the only folks that the PNW were standing up for was a SMALL crowd within the PNW that dont account for the majority of the traffic at Elbe.
Trust is EARNED not preached.
Luckily the REAL users of Elbe STOOD UP for THEMSELVES.
We knew damn well the only folks that the PNW were standing up for was a SMALL crowd within the PNW that dont account for the majority of the traffic at Elbe.
Trust is EARNED not preached.
japerry
Well-Known Member
If you think 7 years of working on obtaining 'sanctioned trails' at Yacolt and 5 years of working through the process at Reiter is a sustainable solution or path forward, well I seriously question which group is sending us backwards.
Northfork was/is an unfortunate situation where I bought up the problem of fairness to DNR, and instead of helping us, Mark Mauren dammed the mtn bikers. Northfork is the reason why I'm trying so hard to bring standards and fairness across groups. No group should easily get shutdown by DNR just because one individual makes a point about double standards. Did you even watch the video that they posted? THOSE ARE USER BUILT TRAILS! And they shouldn't have been shut down.
While I might be new to the area, I'm not new to Yacolt. I wheeled as a passenger here back in 2002-2003. My cousins have lived in Ridgefield for most my life. I'm also not new to the process, laws, or policies in this state. I'm quite aware, and well versed on the Yacolt Rec Plan, the Phase I trail plan, the associated nova grants, lawsuit by Blythe, DNR response, and settlement around yacolt. I also see the same problem happening to Yacolt that we saw with Reiter.. this idea of making things bullet-proof, IE front-loading our construction costs in this misguided attempt to reduce maintenance. Its why the Trails plan was passed by the legislature in the first place.
Despite promises to the contrary, DNR failed to launch 4x4 trails this summer at Yacolt. Again I ask -- do you think 200k grants every other year is a sustainable way to approach trails? I think not. And whats worse is that if DNR believes the Yacolt trails are good, then DNR might start spreading that process all over the state. We cannot let that happen.
If you don't like the system, change it. Thats what a few of us are attempting to do. Its not a black eye, its moving forward.
Northfork was/is an unfortunate situation where I bought up the problem of fairness to DNR, and instead of helping us, Mark Mauren dammed the mtn bikers. Northfork is the reason why I'm trying so hard to bring standards and fairness across groups. No group should easily get shutdown by DNR just because one individual makes a point about double standards. Did you even watch the video that they posted? THOSE ARE USER BUILT TRAILS! And they shouldn't have been shut down.
While I might be new to the area, I'm not new to Yacolt. I wheeled as a passenger here back in 2002-2003. My cousins have lived in Ridgefield for most my life. I'm also not new to the process, laws, or policies in this state. I'm quite aware, and well versed on the Yacolt Rec Plan, the Phase I trail plan, the associated nova grants, lawsuit by Blythe, DNR response, and settlement around yacolt. I also see the same problem happening to Yacolt that we saw with Reiter.. this idea of making things bullet-proof, IE front-loading our construction costs in this misguided attempt to reduce maintenance. Its why the Trails plan was passed by the legislature in the first place.
As trails get decommissioned and closed, per WAC 332-52, they're not legal to use anymore. But DNR's PC region told groups that trails were illegal in the Yacolt Burn, and no one stands up to them. Its a much different group down here than what we have fighting for us at Elbe.DNR Rec Plan said:
Despite promises to the contrary, DNR failed to launch 4x4 trails this summer at Yacolt. Again I ask -- do you think 200k grants every other year is a sustainable way to approach trails? I think not. And whats worse is that if DNR believes the Yacolt trails are good, then DNR might start spreading that process all over the state. We cannot let that happen.
If you don't like the system, change it. Thats what a few of us are attempting to do. Its not a black eye, its moving forward.
YotaDude1997
Well-Known Member
This is correct:booo:
I've spent a few years trying to help. I failed. And so I have moved on.
