WA DNR Trail Policy Public Meetings

[pokey]

I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from the width "suggestions" that the PNW made for US at Elbe.


Luckily the REAL users of Elbe STOOD UP for THEMSELVES.

We knew damn well the only folks that the PNW were standing up for was a SMALL crowd within the PNW that dont account for the majority of the traffic at Elbe.


Trust is EARNED not preached.

Speaking of false prophets and the drinking of Kool-Aid. Steve Russell LIED to you and set in motion a disaster that almost cost us a great advocate at elbe (Nancy) The PNW4WDA never suggested or tried to create any width or length restrictions at Elbe. It was a thought from the DNR thrown out to the focus group to try and curb what the DNR seen as damage. in his misguided way Steve created a hysteria within the user group that may have brought a bunch of people to the table for a short time but as with most things 95% of them didn't stick around long including himself.

 

[Anthony1]

And what are you doing? I don't always agree with Jim. But he is there for us the users. I don't ever attend the DNR meetings. But at the Forest Service meetings, if your not in the PNW. You have no voice for the wheeling community.

I have ran into this problem also when attending a Forest Service meeting.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Speaking of false prophets and the drinking of Kool-Aid. Steve Russell LIED to you and set in motion a disaster that almost cost us a great advocate at elbe (Nancy) The PNW4WDA never suggested or tried to create any width or length restrictions at Elbe. It was a thought from the DNR thrown out to the focus group to try and curb what the DNR seen as damage. in his misguided way Steve created a hysteria within the user group that may have brought a bunch of people to the table for a short time but as with most things 95% of them didn't stick around long including himself.

Remember what you choose to, but the PNW supported the restriction and Steve didnt.

Steve led people to fight for what WE WANT and we got it.

You were ready to just roll over and take it in the rear.


Thats not the kinda sissy ass help we need. Help is good, but spineless help, not so good.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Jim, you are so ****in high on how cool and helpfull you are, its blinding your reality.




We hear you tell us how YOU help us all the time.

Maybe paving Evans creek for the FS is your idea of helping?

 

[pokey]

Remember what you choose to, but the PNW supported the restriction and Steve didnt.

Steve led people to fight for what WE WANT and we got it.

You were ready to just roll over and take it in the rear.


Thats not the kinda sissy ass help we need. Help is good, but spineless help, not so good.

Total bullshit. When this came back to the region two meeting it was overwhelmingly voted down by the pnw4wda.

Jim, you are so ****in high on how cool and helpfull you are, its blinding your reality.




We hear you tell us how YOU help us all the time.

Maybe paving Evans creek for the FS is your idea of helping?

Once again you prove just how clueless you are to the facts. Must b because you are so involved in keeping trails open.

 

[mtn4wheeler]

if you think 7 years of working on obtaining 'sanctioned trails' at yacolt and 5 years of working through the process at reiter is a sustainable solution or path forward, well i seriously question which group is sending us backwards.

yes i know its a state agency and it should be the same for the every where but its not. There are different circumstances in each case.

northfork was/is an unfortunate situation where i bought up the problem of fairness to dnr, and instead of helping us, mark mauren dammed the mtn bikers. Northfork is the reason why i'm trying so hard to bring standards and fairness across groups. No group should easily get shutdown by dnr just because one individual makes a point about double standards. Did you even watch the video that they posted? Those are user built trails! And they shouldn't have been shut down.

I don't know anything about this northfork area but it sounds to me like you caused a big problem with it. :eeek:

While i might be new to the area, i'm not new to yacolt. I wheeled as a passenger here back in 2002-2003. My cousins have lived in ridgefield for most my life. I'm also not new to the process, laws, or policies in this state. I'm quite aware, and well versed on the yacolt rec plan, the phase i trail plan, the associated nova grants, lawsuit by blythe, dnr response, and settlement around yacolt. I also see the same problem happening to yacolt that we saw with reiter.. This idea of making things bullet-proof, ie front-loading our construction costs in this misguided attempt to reduce maintenance. Its why the trails plan was passed by the legislature in the first place.

well i'm not new to yacolt either. I have lived here my whole life and i wheeled there as a passenger from 1985 to 1993. Then when i got my drivers license i continued to go up there legally.

if you knew the whole history of the yacolt trails area you would know when they closed them and about the process of them wanting to give us a different area. They had a ton of meetings and work groups working on a new area. They strung it out for years until everyone involved was tired of the fight and left. So the dnr ended up winning.

so as for pistons wild taking years to get where they are i commend them for staying with it and getting to where we are today. I didn't see you or very many other people wanting to step up and take this project on.

If you dont like what is happening on the ground with the trails, i say step up and get involved and lead a work party. That way you and all your friends can make the trail what you want, as long as it fits in with what the DNR says can be there. Talking about what should or shouldn't be is just that, talk. Put your boots and gloves on and get dirty.


as trails get decommissioned and closed, per wac 332-52, they're not legal to use anymore. But dnr's pc region told groups that trails were illegal in the yacolt burn, and no one stands up to them. Its a much different group down here than what we have fighting for us at elbe.

Despite promises to the contrary, dnr failed to launch 4x4 trails this summer at yacolt. Again i ask -- do you think 200k grants every other year is a sustainable way to approach trails? I think not. And whats worse is that if dnr believes the yacolt trails are good, then dnr might start spreading that process all over the state. We cannot let that happen.

If you don't like the system, change it. Thats what a few of us are attempting to do. Its not a black eye, its moving forward.

That's my $.05

 

[japerry]

so as for pistons wild taking years to get where they are i commend them for staying with it and getting to where we are today. I didn't see you or very many other people wanting to step up and take this project on.

If you dont like what is happening on the ground with the trails, i say step up and get involved and lead a work party. That way you and all your friends can make the trail what you want, as long as it fits in with what the DNR says can be there. Talking about what should or shouldn't be is just that, talk. Put your boots and gloves on and get dirty.

Actually Jacob (boardbysled) and I tried. I was involved in a few planning sessions before ground was broken, as well as the first walk throughs. We were also there for the first work party weekend and their attitude towards everything was very frustrating. We tried to organize our own work party, and even submitted a form a few weeks later but DNR shut us down telling us to go talk to PW.

So instead we have work parties elsewhere, under the radar :stirpot: while I fight to change the tone in Olympia. Yacolt isn't the cause of the problem, its a symptom of it.

And just saying something is closed doesn't mean it actually is. Thats not how the law works.

 

[pokey]

Remember what you choose to, but the PNW supported the restriction and Steve didnt.

Steve led people to fight for what WE WANT and we got it.

You were ready to just roll over and take it in the rear.


Thats not the kinda sissy ass help we need. Help is good, but spineless help, not so good.

Couple of questions for you Brad.
1. Were you at the Elbe focus group meeting when I supposedly suggested that the trails have a length and width restriction ?

2. Were you at the following region meeting where you claim the PNW4WDA said to go with the restrictions ?

3. Were you at the big lynch mob meeting when I stood up and said that the PNW4WDA does NOT support any new restrictions at Elbe ?

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Couple of questions for you Brad.
1. Were you at the Elbe focus group meeting when I supposedly suggested that the trails have a length and width restriction ?

2. Were you at the following region meeting where you claim the PNW4WDA said to go with the restrictions ?

3. Were you at the big lynch mob meeting when I stood up and said that the PNW4WDA does NOT support any new restrictions at Elbe ?

#1 you didnt suggest the restrictions. DNR suggested it. Then Dale/Gibby was the one who led the charge as the PNWs Elbe Rep to set some length and width restrictions.

He, NOR the PNW stood up to fight for ALL users of the trails but instead WORKED WITH the DNR to come up with an acceptable set of dimensions to restrict users based on.

No dimension is acceptable and the PNW shoud have stood up to survey all of its clubs and users not just the views of a select few in one club.


#2 No I was not and please refer to above to follow the "who suggested, who picked the sizes" kinda info we have already gone over.


#3Yes I was and your statement there was only after a HUGE response was formed and you sided with the "mob" to look better.

You had stated MANY times that you favor TIRE SIZE restrictions, WIDTH restriction and anything else that was different than a CJ on the BUSYWILD.

You were always in support of keeping smaller rigs on the Busy "just like the old days" ya know when you guys ran that trail in a CJ on 9.00x15s.



(yawn)

 

[CHOP SHOP]

In case any new folks are confused to Pokeys view on THEIR wheeler and where it should be allowed to go.

I am at 67" and it works fine for me. as far as restictions there are plenty of trails that are wide enough for bigger rigs and they should be allowed to use them. But there are trails made for and should be limited to narrower rigs with stiff fines for those who try to cram their rig into a trail to tight for them. there should be some kind of a rating system created and width restrictions enforced. Make your rig to fit the trail dont expect the trail to fit your rig:awesomework:

 

[pokey]

In case any new folks are confused to Pokeys view on THEIR wheeler and where it should be allowed to go.

I believe that's from a post discussing the little rattlesnake trail and once again the USFS set the width we nor I did. it was part of their way to curtail damage and overuse of the trail.

 

[pokey]

#1 you didnt suggest the restrictions. DNR suggested it. Then Dale/Gibby was the one who led the charge as the PNWs Elbe Rep to set some length and width restrictions.

He, NOR the PNW stood up to fight for ALL users of the trails but instead WORKED WITH the DNR to come up with an acceptable set of dimensions to restrict users based on.

No dimension is acceptable and the PNW shoud have stood up to survey all of its clubs and users not just the views of a select few in one club.


#2 No I was not and please refer to above to follow the "who suggested, who picked the sizes" kinda info we have already gone over.


#3Yes I was and your statement there was only after a HUGE response was formed and you sided with the "mob" to look better.

You had stated MANY times that you favor TIRE SIZE restrictions, WIDTH restriction and anything else that was different than a CJ on the BUSYWILD.

You were always in support of keeping smaller rigs on the Busy "just like the old days" ya know when you guys ran that trail in a CJ on 9.00x15s.



(yawn)

Well your finally getting around to admitting the truth at least as to where the idea came from. Now does anybody really believe that Gibby who drives a long wheelbase Toyota with full size axles would really champion a wheelbase and width restriction :eeek: I did not follow the mob I stated what the PNW4WDA wanted plain and simple. Your constant mantra against the PNW4WDA and me is old and based on lies and misinformation. As for not supporting the current use and "all users" who do you think makes sure the moneys there to support what's going on ? Who do you think got the funding for the trackhoe that's being used to do the fine work being done at Elbe. Does anybody see a "chopshop" decal on the trailer that is used and to haul the trackhoe and was donated by PNW4WDA region two clubs as required by the NOVA grant ?
Brad you love to crap on the PNW4WDA and our efforts and you love to bag on me for touting what we do but fact is if you just quit talking about things that you just don't know the truth about then I wouldn't have to defend the truth so often. I will NEVER back down from correcting your lies and misrepresentation of the facts Plain and simple we The PNW4WDA support all 4x4 users and appropriate use of the trails we help manage :awesomework:

 

[Mark m.]

:corn:

 

[japerry]

:corn:

And to stoke the fire some more.. :stirpot:

Want to know what the NF -really- was about? here ya go:
https://medium.com/dnr-trail-policy/the-northfork-closure-eadaafc02689

PS. Thanks PNW4WDA for helping throw me under the bus instead of also fighting Section 8 of SB-5366.

 

[Anthony1]

It was like pulling teeth to get the PNW to fork over the money for the trailer, but in the end they did buy it.:awesomework:

I still won't and don't support the PNW but that's only because of they way they have treated me over the years.:fawkdancesmiley:
:corn:

 

[pokey]

It was like pulling teeth to get the PNW to fork over the money for the trailer, but in the end they did buy it.:awesomework:

I still won't and don't support the PNW but that's only because of they way they have treated me over the years.:fawkdancesmiley:
:corn:

Bullshit. In the beginning we had a trailer donated by our region director. turned out that the DNR did not have a truck available to use that was big enough to pull it. We finally just wound up buying a new one from region funds and the some of clubs helped pay for it by donating. What has the PNW4WDA done to you "treated me"

 

[pokey]

And to stoke the fire some more.. :stirpot:

Want to know what the NF -really- was about? here ya go:
https://medium.com/dnr-trail-policy/the-northfork-closure-eadaafc02689

PS. Thanks PNW4WDA for helping throw me under the bus instead of also fighting Section 8 of SB-5366.

It was you that did the throwing Jacob.

 

[Anthony1]

Bullshit. In the beginning we had a trailer donated by our region director. turned out that the DNR did not have a truck available to use that was big enough to pull it. We finally just wound up buying a new one from region funds and the some of clubs helped pay for it by donating. What has the PNW4WDA done to you "treated me"

I wasn't excepted by the PNW because of what I drove and the size of my tires. I tried several different times to join and to try and help but they didn't want or need it from me, it's a real shame the way they treated people back then.

 

[pokey]

sorry for your experience. We have evolved just as rigs have and there are clubs that accept all kinds of rigs but more importantly is the person and or family. We also have the option of individual membership so you can be involved and supportive.

 

[Anthony1]

I find that hard to believe but sorry for your experience. We have evolved just as rigs have and there are clubs that accept all kinds of rigs but more importantly is the person and or family. We also have the option of individual membership so you can be involved and supportive.

I wasn't the only one they did this too.