What is more destructive?

[Boomer]

Like I said:

and motorcycles and quads.. then it can just be one big forest service road...ya good idea

If nothing else, then I suppose that at least the three worst offending vehicles won't be there to ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[crash2]

How about if we take responsibility for our actions and not try to wrongfully place blame on any one segment of our user group? How about if we do our best to maintain the trails and educate users we see abusing them?

DING DING.....


People need to relize people cause all this crap--not tires :;

 

[Roccrawler]

Big tires(40+) locked up.....or....31-33 open diffs or only one locker?




My thought is........is it really big tires that mess up trails? or is it heavy rigs with small tire and open diffs?


I know that I can drive a trail in my buggy and rarely spin a tire, climb up most ledges, root clusters, logs, rocks with out tearing up things. To do the same in a less equipt rig one would have to pull cable on every rock, log or root......that is if the rig had a winch and one was willing to pull it instead of spinning tires.


What are your thought???

OK.. BAck on track here..

This thread is asking,
Lets say everyone is at evans creek.. Now this is a very basic easy place

I do not believe a person with 31" tires and open could cruise all the trails and never spin a tire. I do believe a rig on 40's could.

The thread at no time said anything about go arounds, thats just the driver and his choice.

We are talking tire size here

So my answer is yes.. a smaller tire does more damage at the beginning..

Now that said.. go somewhere tougher were the smaller tire has already done the damage, then YES a larger tire is gonna get stuck and continue to do more damage.

 

[skrause]

People need to relize people cause all this crap--not tires :;

I'm gonna go design a tire that's meant for pure trail destruction :flipoff: :redneck: :corn:

 

[Boomer]

Its the driver. but a bad driver with small tires does a lot less damage then a bad driver with huge tires. We ran the sma trails for years with small tires and never seen the kind of damage that we see now. Plain a simple a 40" tire will dig bigger holes than a 33. I also tend to think that the bigger tire (which makes the rig more capable if you will) tends to make the driver seek out more difficult lines that tend to move away from the traditional trail.

That sums it up perfectly.

 

[CrustyJeep]

I'm gonna go design a tire that's meant for pure trail destruction :flipoff: :redneck: :corn:

Interco already did :flipoff:

 

[Roccrawler]

DING DING.....


People need to relize people cause all this crap--not tires :;

But that was not the original question in the thread.. thats the obvious

 

[crash2]

Big tires(40+) locked up.....or....31-33 open diffs or only one locker?
My thought is........is it really big tires that mess up trails? or is it heavy rigs with small tire and open diffs?
I know that I can drive a trail in my buggy and rarely spin a tire, climb up most ledges, root clusters, logs, rocks with out tearing up things. To do the same in a less equipt rig one would have to pull cable on every rock, log or root......that is if the rig had a winch and one was willing to pull it instead of spinning tires.
What are your thought???

With out a dought big tires locked front and rear.

For a prime example take a nice flat gravel area. take both rigs and just have them go in circles with mild speed.

Now compare the 2--which one did the most damage? The large tired rig just for the pure fact there is a much larger scrub area on the ground...

So reguardless a big tire cuases more damage.

 

[Roccrawler]

With out a dought big tires locked front and rear.

For a prime example take a nice flat gravel area. take both rigs and just have them go in circles with mild speed.

Now compare the 2--which one did the most damage? The large tired rig just for the pure fact there is a much larger scrub area on the ground...

So reguardless a big tire cuases more damage.

good one :kissmyass:

 

[Roccrawler]

With out a dought big tires locked front and rear.

For a prime example take a nice flat gravel area. take both rigs and just have them go in circles with mild speed.

Now compare the 2--which one did the most damage? The large tired rig just for the pure fact there is a much larger scrub area on the ground...

So reguardless a big tire cuases more damage.

hey wait ... that just loosens it then packs back down it doesnt dig holes :flipoff:

 

[Boomer]

I'm having difficulty accepting that the guys with a real engine turning locked up 40"+ tires never spin them, either.

 

[Roccrawler]

I'm having difficulty accepting that the guys with a real engine turning locked up 40"+ tires never spin them, either.

That would be a drivers choice

 

[Boomer]

That would be a drivers choice

So then the original question was based on false premises and is therefore moot. :clappy:

 

[tsm1mt]

49" tires don't belong on the trails because its not a challenge for a rig with that big of tires so they make their own trails. And if they do have a challenge on a trail its so tore up afterwords nothing with smaller tires will make it.

If it's not a challenge for a guy in 49" tires, then he's not doing much damage, is he?

The second half of your first sentence goes back to "it's the driver, stupid!"

Wheel spin is the #1 cause of trail damage. Big or small.

Yes, big tires can make bigger holes. So can small tires and a shovel.

Ben says "education" and he has it.

IMHO, the biggest problem is the influx of people that think they MUST have big tires to wheel, and set out to BUY the best rig money can buy, without ever having learned how to DRIVE. Instead, they become throttle jockeys with no concept of the damage they're doing.

Having worked my way up the ranks, I can now wheel a stock 4x4 places I never thought I could get my lifted + locked rig into/through/over. I'm not a superb driver, but I'm a MUCH better driver than I used to be.

So how do you educate folks?

Organize. Then coordinate events to show folks that there ARE people/places/programs out there to help them become better educated, then follow that up with things like Crash's "newbie" runs. Get 'em into the fold and help them become better drivers.

We're going to have a UFWDA Trail Leader training in February with the goal of getting every trail boss for our Jamboree certified. No, most of our leaders don't need the training - they're already capable, but at the same time we're training them to become trainers, and put on seminars in each of their towns and train folks.

..and it's something we'll try to sell to the Jeep dealerships to help train/teac new Jeep owners how to PROPERLY recreate and drive offroad. Heck, there are lots of business looking to get their drivers trained, too.

 

[tsm1mt]

I'm having difficulty accepting that the guys with a real engine turning locked up 40"+ tires never spin them, either.

Depends on whether their responsible wheelers.

And around here, it depends on the depth of the snow whether spinning 40s is a good idea.

It's amazing how much snow a Unimog on 46s can churn through without leaving a mark on the ground.

 

[boxboy]

I think with the same driver and the rig setup the same way (Lockers or not) on 33's or on 40's the 40's have the potential to remove more soil faster but I think you will lose traction sooner with 33's

 

[Roccrawler]

I think with the same driver and the rig setup the same way (Lockers or not) on 33's or on 40's the 40's have the potential to remove more soil faster but I think you will lose traction sooner with 33's

agreed..

 

[tsm1mt]

We should all just drive Toyotas with 22REs and 49s.

Not enough power to spin 'em, so no damage will ever happen.

And it'll be narrow, so you can avoid the chain-saw wielding redneck that thinks the "Jeep trail"'s trees are going to hurt his truck.

 

[briejer]

I think Rig weight and tire width and tire PSI play in to this. If you have a big footprint and light rig then you will float and not sink down and dig til your diffs hit.

I experience this when I wheel my 49's(or when I had 44's) in the snow. I just crawl anywhere I want floating over the stuff. My buddy behind me with a 5500 pound toyota on 38's digs down.

When I tried to wheel the tall skinny 53's I just dug down....they were by far a more destructive tire than the wide 49's

Now I'll be trying a 42 TSL.....My prediction is I will have to spin more to get through the same place I crawled with the 49's


And to all of you who say you dont spin your tires....... YOUR A LIAR...Offroad sports involve tire spinning and trails get dug out PEROID. However we do have a choice in deciding when to let off the throttle and when to try harder.


The difference between tire size and penis size is at least you can buy bigger tires.

 

[crash2]

The difference between tire size and penis size is at least you can buy bigger tires.

wRONG......



You can buy implants :;