Width Restrictions

[JThompson]

*Quote*Personally, I'm at Scout width axles. And I've always felt that a Scout, old Bronco, Sami, Jeep CJ-YJ-TJ-JK, Toy PU, Landcruiser, little Rover, Patrol, class of rigs are wheelers. And fullsized rigs aren't. Not that I don't like 'em, just that seeing full sized carnage and tree bashing isn't cool. Most of the greater pacific northwest trails were made with old Willys by our fore-fathers. *Quote*

True. I also like fullsize rigs, but have never felt that in this area, at least, they are a true wheeler. If I lived in the south or midwest, then maybe. Why don't you see many fullsize rigs in Africa, Austrailia, or the unpopulated areas of Asia? Too big, not economical, and too heavy, I feel.


*Quote*Secondly, I doubt you could effectively legislate/legalize axle widths. But it would be much easier to legislate off-road tire size. So, I'd prefer that. Now, I run 37s. But in a prior incarnation, I ran 31s. So, it might be a step backwards, but I can adapt. However if we (the state) ever did go to a maximum tire size, I hope it is 37s. Of course, this is another can of worms, which, if I recall correctly, has a thread somewhere here already*Quote*

Can I ask, what is the deal with running large diameter tires? Does a 42" tire do more damage than a 37" tire? I don't think so.

Maybe limit motor size! :flipoff: My 22RE could never hurt the environment... I can hardly spin the tires! :haha:

 

[PORTER]

porter, how big are your tires??

40', the reason I say 40 is because I believe any obstice in Wa can be made with this size tire. 42s, and beyond are fun tires dont get me wrong but are not necessary to make some of the harder climbs, like some of the lines at Funny/Moon. Again it would suck to come to a tire size law because it would alienate some of our fellow wheelers that prefer to run 42s and beyond but If i had to make the decision I would stay at 40.

 

[TreeClimber]

Why don't you see many full size rigs in Africa, Australia, or the unpopulated areas of Asia? Too big, not economical, and too heavy, I feel.

Can I ask, what is the deal with running large diameter tires? Does a 42" tire do more damage than a 37" tire? I don't think so.

Maybe limit motor size! :flipoff: My 22RE could never hurt the environment... I can hardly spin the tires! :haha:

You don't see full sizes in Africa & Australia due to Manufacturing. Remember, Ford, GM, Dodge are all domestic manufactures. These trucks were never produced, nor imported into those continents. However, Land Rovers, Land Cruisers, etc were massively imported. So, the locals modified what was available. Nothing to do with too big, too un-economical, or too heavy. Simply put, they never had 'em.

And does a 42 inch tire do more damage than a 33 incher? NO. But the idiot behind the wheel CAN DO more damage with a 42 incher if (s)he has the motor and lack of common sense.

Here's the thing to consider. If (verrry hypothetically) you'd limit tires to 33s. Would anyone run D60s? Doubtful. Too big, too heavy, too little ground clearance. Why bother? A d44 would be PLENTY. Would you need full width axles? NO. A narrow track would be fine, for turning, to accommodate a little tire. BUT, with 37s, I NEED a wider axle - that's why I have Scout width - in order to get enough width to actually turn the tires before they rub the frame rails.

And furthermore, I have absolutely no desire to ever see any legislation about any limitations on our wheeling environment. I'm simply stating that it'd be easier to manage a Tire Size Limitation than a Axle Width Limitation.

 

[PORTER]

And furthermore, I have absolutely no desire to ever see any legislation about any limitations on our wheeling environment.

Amen Brother, what I think is totally stupid is that our ORV areas are lass that 1 percent of the total public land out there and they want to bitch about us as offroaders like we wheel in all public land.. Secondly, an ORV area INMO should be just that somewhere for us to go out and spin out tires,rub trees, and get muddy in the deep ruts if we so choose. It is microscopic, compared to the big picture.

 

[pbmcauliffe]

I just measured a JK in the shop at 72" wide with 33's and Hutchinson beadlocks (unsure of bs) they will be about 73-74 when they go to 35's

 

[Boonie Buster]

You don't see full sizes in Africa & Australia due to Manufacturing. Remember, Ford, GM, Dodge are all domestic manufactures. These trucks were never produced, nor imported into those continents. However, Land Rovers, Land Cruisers, etc were massively imported. So, the locals modified what was available. Nothing to do with too big, too un-economical, or too heavy. Simply put, they never had 'em.

And does a 42 inch tire do more damage than a 33 incher? NO. But the idiot behind the wheel CAN DO more damage with a 42 incher if (s)he has the motor and lack of common sense.

Here's the thing to consider. If (verrry hypothetically) you'd limit tires to 33s. Would anyone run D60s? Doubtful. Too big, too heavy, too little ground clearance. Why bother? A d44 would be PLENTY. Would you need full width axles? NO. A narrow track would be fine, for turning, to accommodate a little tire. BUT, with 37s, I NEED a wider axle - that's why I have Scout width - in order to get enough width to actually turn the tires before they rub the frame rails.

And furthermore, I have absolutely no desire to ever see any legislation about any limitations on our wheeling environment. I'm simply stating that it'd be easier to manage a Tire Size Limitation than a Axle Width Limitation.

couldn't a guy with 33s and a large motor though do just as much damage as the guy with 42s, yes, it just takes him longer...

i do like what porter said about the difference between a small truck running fullwidth compared to a fullwidth truck and fullwidth axles going down the same trail. and yes it would be easier to regulate tire size, but what about those that already have a larger tire than the regulation? it is kind of a bummer to have a big set of tires that are no good...or limited/constricted to even less areas to run...

 

[PORTER]

it is kind of a bummer to have a big set of tires that are no good...or limited/constricted to even less areas to run...

I dont think this would ever happen, as I believe the tire companies would get involved with lawyers to fight it as they would loose alot of money if restrictions were imposed.

 

[TreeClimber]

couldn't a guy with 33s and a large motor though do just as much damage as the guy with 42s, yes, it just takes him longer...

i do like what porter said about the difference between a small truck running fullwidth compared to a fullwidth truck and fullwidth axles going down the same trail. and yes it would be easier to regulate tire size, but what about those that already have a larger tire than the regulation? it is kind of a bummer to have a big set of tires that are no good...or limited/constricted to even less areas to run...

Ayyuupp. A guy with 33s can do as much damage. That's really never been the question. And yup it would suck to retire my 37 Krawlers. That's why I'm against any regulations. But the reality of Washington State, is we're a bunch of Democrats with Holier Than Thou legislation. So, when we do get regulated (not if), don't be surprised. I'm tellin' ya' know, it's coming. I just hope it don't come in the next couple of decades.

And Porter may have a point about the tire company fighting tire size limitations. But our wonderful legislature may beg to differ.

EDIT - And if anything I've typed in this thread hits home with you, then join the Pacific Northwest Four Wheel Drive Assoc., as we're going to need a political action committee with some money, some political say so, some active members to fight to keep trails open. You see this in Moab. You see it in California. You see real people donating real amounts of money to fight to keep areas open.

 

[Jaydog]

after talking to people from other states, i have come to the conclusion washington SUCKS for orv users. when i go to oregon orvs seem more welcome than wa. when i went to the hammers i didnt see any restrictions. when i went to the indy jambo it was crazy what they were getting away with!! washington veiws orv use as a nuisance and will always get the shaft.
look at how many orv sites we have in wa. i pass almost that many just on my way to the dunes in or. :wtf:

It has been my experience that most of the anti wheeling drama comes from within the wheeling groups, I haven't ever had anyone say anything negative about wheeling to me (outside of the wheeling community) and I starting wheeling with my Toyota in 1988.

On another note, the trails aren't "Jeep Trails" they are ORV trails.

 

[Jaydog]

My 4 runner is 85" in the front and 83 in the rear. I dont think ill have to much problems.

I think Gibby is close to that in his 4runner, and he can fit on every trail we run.

 

[pokey]

It has been my experience that most of the anti wheeling drama comes from within the wheeling groups, I haven't ever had anyone say anything negative about wheeling to me (outside of the wheeling community) and I starting wheeling with my Toyota in 1988.

On another note, the trails aren't "Jeep Trails" they are ORV trails.

You need to attend a few meetings with me Jason. There is literly(sp) an army out their out to get us out of the woods. Actualy the RAC (resource advisory council) that I sit on is looking for some new blood:hi:

 

[Digger 5]

Wow---what a can of worms!!!
I'm anti full size and I've always made that very clear. Why so vehement? Because we've lost more areas to wheelin due to full size rigs than any other reason. Now that I've got your attention and pissed you off, let me explain.

Locals in nearly every area have gone in with their PU trucks and dumped **** everywhere. 15 years ago you could wheel all over Weyerhaeuser or Plum Creek land without any issue. Then, in response to shitheads too lazy to go to the dump, they got tired of cleaning up after them and closed the areas.

If our trail system is widened to allow full width, we'll have even more dumbshits out there that shouldn't be there. We already see the 16 YO kid driving his Dad's Jeep/Explorer/Isuzu/Toyota/S-10/etc getting stuck and cutting anything in sight to help get him out. Reiter already has this problem with full sized rigs in various areas and I don't want to see other areas infected. Gate keepers would really help but too many areas could be easily bypassed.

For tire size, like Tony, I have 37's and hope that the size can be maintained. I think 37's are a good size and have a relatively good argument for them: on a Jeep (OK...I'm not talking about Toys) it's about the largest tire you can use without widening the axle. Any wider of a tire and you really hurt turning radius due to hitting springs/frame.

And yes--- a larger tire does more damage than a smaller tire. It you doubt it, drive a rig on 32's and follow group on 37" and up tires. The ruts are deeper and winches becomes required . We've all noticed that the guy with the smaller tire gets stuck more. Anyone remember following Bobby Long when he had his John Deere Toyota? That rig left tracks you could see from outer space.

Buggies also have had somewhat of a negative effect on our sport. While the whole rock crawling thing has really helped us to develop new parts and have much better rigs, buggies are SO well equipped that nothing is hard anymore. And then, to have some kind of challenge, many are going places that they were never intended to go, like off the trail. Not every buggy owner does this but it is becoming more common. Not everyone that does this is a buggie owner but in certain parts of the country you are really seeing a backlash against the buggy because of the actions of a few idiots.

In the end, we all have to make choices that are good for our sport and will help to perpetuate it. We have to stop the dickheads that wreck it for all of us. When you see someone getting off the trail, ask them to get back on it. If you see someone dumping trash tell them to pick it up. If they don't get their license plate number and report them. We should always pack MORE out than we pack in.

I expect to get flamed but I don't really care. I love this sport and hope it can survive. One thing is clear, if we don't start doing a better job of policing ourselves, someone else will do it. And it will NOT be good.

 

[Bunk1]

width restriction, traction restriction, Horsepower restriction, fuel restriction and etc. whats next. Enjoy while its here, something worse will happen before we cant wheel anywhere.

 

[sandysfull-sizecarnage]

If our trail system is widened to allow full width, we'll have even more dumbshits out there that shouldn't be there.

yeah i have wheeled a toy and ive been into the whole sand rails and everything and im on my second fullsize chev now and i dont see why you are saying that if you allow fullsizes you will get more dumbasses. the rig doesnt make the person a dumbass. its their driving style. i have seen just as many toys and JEEPS thrashing the trails just like a fullsize would. thanks for considering me a dumbass :fawkdancesmiley:

 

[crash2]

Wow---what a can of worms!!!

Sounds like a discussion we had recently :redneck:

 

[sandysfull-sizecarnage]

yeah he just pryin that can of worms open even more. i guess i should just stop wheeling my k5 kus im considered a dumbshit :flipoff:

 

[Digger 5]

If you got that from my comments.....

I'll try it a lttle clearer. If a full size can get in, then a fullsize will get in. If you can get in with your K5, then your dumbass neighbor's kid can get in with his Dad's truck and raise hell. Or, my white trash neighbor will find it and decide to dump the flea infested couch he can't give away. In any case, these events could easily lead to getting the area closed.

 

[JThompson]

It has been my experience that most of the anti wheeling drama comes from within the wheeling groups, I haven't ever had anyone say anything negative about wheeling to me (outside of the wheeling community) and I starting wheeling with my Toyota in 1988.

On another note, the trails aren't "Jeep Trails" they are ORV trails.

A lot more drama does come from within the wheeling community than is necessary, I will agree. But, I am actually friends/acquaintances with several people that just do not care one bit for my offroad enthusiasm.
Case in point, my boss is an avid hiker/backpacker/canoer/camper/fisherman and has always gone on long hikes on his own, and prefers no motorized help. I actually do respect him for his love of the outdoors and conservationism.

But, unfortunately, he learns that I have snowmobiles and have a 4x4 (offroad vehicles) and he immediatly feels that I don't care about air quality, plant life, water quality, etc..!!

He is a member of the Sierra Club, so naturally he hears all of this propaganda about how we are pretty much (paraphrasing) intentionally ruining and conquering our environment for our own sick ego.

He was amazed when I told him that friends and I always try to make it a point to pack some trash out with us. He really thought we just went offroad to dump, saw down trees, and shoot beer bottles with our shotguns!

 

[bigiron]

well i narrowed my down from 102" to 88" running 44" tires but i have rear steer so it will crawl around stuff real good also narrowed body 12" to keep from rubbing on trees. I think small tires used by a dumbass will do as much damage as big tires.big tires will make deeper holes if a dumdass is behind the wheel. But big tires used responsibly are far less destructive because you can crawl through where small tires will not find traction and cause more damage. I hope no restrictions are imposed but will comply if they are. My two cents.:stirpot:

 

[Gibby1]

I think Gibby is close to that in his 4runner, and he can fit on every trail we run.

I'm 81" outside bulge to outside bulge on the tires.

Here's my take on this. This is a good topic.

I think proper signage and trail ratings can prevent must of the trail damage related to tire sizes or vehicle size. My rather large 4Runner on 40" tires does far less trail damage than most rigs in our club. JR Gaylor, Jaydog, Yotakid and CheaperJeeper all have similiarly built rigs, although smaller and they don't do much in the way of trail damage either but that's because they're all locked up with winches, and they use them. Our smalled or less equipped guys will take a few extra runs at an obstacle and rely on the throttle to get them through instead. They are fun to watch but the do end up throwing a lot more mud around than the better built rigs.

If we were to devise a standard trail rating system for the trails in the state, and have a standardized system for evaluating them then we could educate the people about what's coming up, just like we do ski runs. Yes, there are still those idiots who will cross the snow fences into the do not ski areas but they don't get ski resorts shut down. However, everyone knows by the rating of the trail, which trails they should and should not be on.

Enforcement... tough. But, we are much more likely to not have people end up where they don't belong, which is the whole point really of any tire or width restriction system.