DNR update

[japerry]

I fully understand that there are a lot of interpersonal issues going on. My point was that the agencys like to work with one or two contact people for planning and such. There is a time and place for large meetings and public opinion and discussion but there is also a time and place for quiet and concentrated work and planning. If we want them to work with us then we need to work the way they do or we will get shut out of the process.

Absolutely. I've worked with MANY organizations, and internal politics all end up being the same: you'll have a lot of people who talk, but very few who walk. I look at the CC list, and I see a group of people who have POURED their heart and soul into getting access open for wheeling. It takes time and dedication to get stuff done, and usually there is a .org group that handles the needs of the many.

yeah back when elbe was the subject, DNR worked with one or two contact individuals that wanted to have restrictions and wanted to get it passed quick with the support of the PNW.

But when it comes to Reiter, it isn't one or two people. There is a very large and diverse ORV .org group. There is no way a closed door agreement like elbe could succeed here.

Jim mentioned it, so did Crash, we need to trust the people who have shown they can do the heavy lifting to keep Reiter open and successful for the ORV community. Sure, its not going to be the wild west anymore, but its going to be open and I'm 100% positive that the ORV team will do everything in their power to get what we want within the bounds of state law.

 

[4xrick]

Absolutely. I've worked with MANY organizations, and internal politics all end up being the same: you'll have a lot of people who talk, but very few who walk. I look at the CC list, and I see a group of people who have POURED their heart and soul into getting access open for wheeling. It takes time and dedication to get stuff done, and usually there is a .org group that handles the needs of the many.



But when it comes to Reiter, it isn't one or two people. There is a very large and diverse ORV .org group. There is no way a closed door agreement like elbe could succeed here.

Jim mentioned it, so did Crash, we need to trust the people who have shown they can do the heavy lifting to keep Reiter open and successful for the ORV community. Sure, its not going to be the wild west anymore, but its going to be open and I'm 100% positive that the ORV team will do everything in their power to get what we want within the bounds of state law.

I agree. As I have stated before there is a time for numbers, and a time for small focus group style meetings. As David has stated, the agenda of this meeting was to meet with the people who are very actively involved in this issue and let us (the involved representatives) know what is happening, such as next steps, etc - which will be communicated down.
As someone else stated there is a difference between a meeting that is open to the public and a public meeting. This is critical for folks here to be mindful of, as "the invited representatives strive to communicate the importance for the type of meeting, and work together as such to get the job done.
If you (as viewers/posters in this thread) have not been to this style of meeting before, and are not regularly involved, then this is not the meeting to start with for getting involved. While we want ALL USERS participation for the work, when it is appropriate, this focus group meeting is not the appropriate time.
Those of us who are attending or were listed on the invitation - have been invited, and are attending for a reason. That is what seems that some folks in this thread are not comprehending.

As crash and I have both stated, we will inform everyone to the best of our abilities of what is going on as we know it.

And again, thank you to everyone who is out there making an effort to help this process along - past present, and in the future.

 

[pokey]

yeah back when elbe was the subject, DNR worked with one or two contact individuals that wanted to have restrictions and wanted to get it passed quick with the support of the PNW.

Good thing a couple hundred folks showed up to let the DNR know that the PNW represents a very small portion of elbes users and was not properly representing ALL of its users.

There are some agendas the select few dont want resistance form.:;

Once again your proving that you dont know what your talking about. It was Nancys suggestion in the first place and the PNW4WDA discussed and voted to NOT accept the proposed rule (wheelbase limitation) If you can care to remember at that "meeting" I stood up and stated that the PNW4WDA would not agree to a wheelbase restriction. If your going to try and spout facts then at least get your facts straight :awesomework:

 

[Binder]

Like when?

Do you really want this thread to go that direction? Sounds like a great topic to me but maybe we should start a new thread.

Get over yourself and say whats on your mind.

Get over myself? WOW that's the way a leader gains the trust and respect of the people they wish to lead. And if I was hung upon myself as a leader you would have the obligation of listening to what I had to say. That's part of being a representative, you need to actually represent someone not just your own agenda.:awesomework:

 

[crash2]

Do you really want this thread to go that direction? Sounds like a great topic to me but maybe we should start a new thread.


Get over myself? WOW that's the way a leader gains the trust and respect of the people they wish to lead. And if I was hung upon myself as a leader you would have the obligation of listening to what I had to say. That's part of being a representative, you need to actually represent someone not just your own agenda.:awesomework:

Then what have you brought to the table torwards an agenda and what you wanted passed onto the powers to be?

This sensles dribble and bickering is going to get us no place rick.

So lets get over this stupid crap and get onto the situation at hand.

 

[pokey]

please dont lock me out of this thread because I dont agree with you jim.

I have not insulted you or others, please be fair and not lock me out like you have done with every elbe thread. Just cuz you dont like someones view, its not fair to abuse your mod privileges to "correct" the agenda.

Your getting parinoid :haha: I do my job here as requested by the owners If you break the rules things will happen. Thats all up to you. If you play withen the rules/guidelines then you have no worrys :awesomework: I do NOT delete anything because it differs with my viewpoint. I will delete however things that are total BS or lies though. If you dont like the rules or simply cant play by them then you know what can happen. Its all really up to you and the choices you make :awesomework:

 

[crash2]

I have my facts straight. You guys were supporting a WB and WIDTH restriction to help "Preserve the Integrity of the BusyWild trail".

It wasnt untill after all the commotion was made that you guys flopped to chase the way of the new decision. A wheelbase and width measurement was asked for from your group, for which they proceeded to submit "jeep" friendly numbers excluding alot of REAL users, not just old jeepers that wheel at two club runs a year. (rant off)

If your going to waiste good bandwidth in this thread about this then please start your own thread--last warning....

 

[Money Mark]

My "ORV Leadership" thread was (in a way) meant to address all this unproductive back and forth banter between users.

If a disagreeing user picks "a guy" and another disagreeing user picks a "a guy" then you could express your concerns with "your guy" and "they" could find a reasonable resolution for both disagreeing users.

Mediator's are NOT :rb:


You want this, I want that. Great, opinions are great. But what do "we" want?

 

[Binder]

Look...Without alot of he said- she said crap the bottom line is 99% chance Reiter is done. Sure we may end up with some lame and tame stuff where real wheeling used to be but Reiter as we knew it will be gone. From the beginning of the political process myself and a few others have expressed our opinion of how wrong RTW has handled things. Even went as far as outlining the steps of things to come- closures and time lines when it would happen. Sure as **** here we are just as predicted.
Now, two things. First I'm not going down quietly so when it's over some can pretend they did their best and nothing else could be done. Reminders will go out.:;
Second I just wish to know what's going on currently and I've not passed along my rights or responsibilities to anyone. Don't pretend you represent me, YOU DON"T!
Have a nice day.:cheer:

 

[crash2]

I agree. As I have stated before there is a time for numbers, and a time for small focus group style meetings. As David has stated, the agenda of this meeting was to meet with the people who are very actively involved in this issue and let us (the involved representatives) know what is happening, such as next steps, etc - which will be communicated down.
As someone else stated there is a difference between a meeting that is open to the public and a public meeting. This is critical for folks here to be mindful of, as "the invited representatives strive to communicate the importance for the type of meeting, and work together as such to get the job done.
If you (as viewers/posters in this thread) have not been to this style of meeting before, and are not regularly involved, then this is not the meeting to start with for getting involved. While we want ALL USERS participation for the work, when it is appropriate, this focus group meeting is not the appropriate time.
Those of us who are attending or were listed on the invitation - have been invited, and are attending for a reason. That is what seems that some folks in this thread are not comprehending.

As crash and I have both stated, we will inform everyone to the best of our abilities of what is going on as we know it.

And again, thank you to everyone who is out there making an effort to help this process along - past present, and in the future.

Focus groups are the best method to get anything done......

 

[Corey Y]

From the beginning of the political process myself and a few others have expressed our opinion of how wrong RTW has handled things.

So why didn't yourself and others get involved with the DNR to handle things in the "right way" ?

 

[Money Mark]

So why didn't yourself and others get involved with the DNR to handle things in the "right way" ?

Woulda, coulda, shoulda......useless.

The future is where I provoke others to look.

 

[Binder]

Then what have you brought to the table torwards an agenda and what you wanted passed onto the powers to be?

Tell ya what. Here's one thing I would like to bring up. Thje way I understand it closures are comming up so others (others who you are supposed to represent) can perform work. From what I've read here the majority is against these closures. This should leave you with the point of view that you as a representative are against the closures....End result would be- closures happen then volunteer labor won't happen. Leave it open or build it yourself.....Prety simple...What are they going to do, close it?

 

[Binder]

So why didn't yourself and others get involved with the DNR to handle things in the "right way" ?

In a nutshell the right way is often to keep your trap shut.:; It's easy to do but it's not so easy to get someone else to do.

 

[Money Mark]

....not so easy to get someone else to do.

Amen Brother!

 

[Corey Y]

In a nutshell the right way is often to keep your trap shut.:; It's easy to do but it's not so easy to get someone else to do.

So you wan't to do nothing, say nothing and have everything go you way?

 

[Binder]

So you wan't to do nothing, say nothing and have everything go you way?

Where did I say that?

 

[Corey Y]

I must be comprehending your statements incorrectly. No users want to see this area closed, but do you know all the reasons why it is being moved and turned into a manageable ORV area?

 

[crash2]

Tell ya what. Here's one thing I would like to bring up. Thje way I understand it closures are comming up so others (others who you are supposed to represent) can perform work. From what I've read here the majority is against these closures. This should leave you with the point of view that you as a representative are against the closures....End result would be- closures happen then volunteer labor won't happen. Leave it open or build it yourself.....Prety simple...What are they going to do, close it?

I don't like it--and I will agru the fact.

But here is how I precieve it. How can you build an area thats sole purpose is for ORV use--when its being used? You have seen what goes on up there--you have seen the damage. I mean how can we build something when we constantly have to worry about peoiple ruining whats being done?

As for volunteer help--I am sure that won't be a problem as folks have expressed if they can be involved in making there own future they are willing to help.

But I am not for the closure but I understand why...

 

[Binder]

I don't like it--and I will agru the fact.

But here is how I precieve it. How can you build an area thats sole purpose is for ORV use--when its being used? You have seen what goes on up there--you have seen the damage. I mean how can we build something when we constantly have to worry about peoiple ruining whats being done?

As for volunteer help--I am sure that won't be a problem as folks have expressed if they can be involved in making there own future they are willing to help.

You've missed the message I was trying to get across. It's not about my opinion or yours. It's the majorities opinion. It's the opinion you as a leader should have reguardless of how YOU feel about it....I'm sure you have plenty of volunteers, that's not the point. The point is this is leverage you as a leader could use to get what the majority wants. Use your noodle.:;