Walker, Ron's Run Re-route....

Money Mark · Feb 14, 2011

crash said:
You can be as negative as you wish mark but the fact of the matter is we need to do whatever we can to help keep what we have.

Do not equate my logical disagreement as being negative. I hate when you stoop to that level.:looser:

Money Mark · Feb 14, 2011

crash said:
......the fact of the matter is we need to do whatever we can to help keep what we have.

You are rationalizing it again. Stop doing that.

Money Mark · Feb 14, 2011

boardbysled said:
Logs used as posts?

More detail....turn those 4 words into 100.

zukkev · Feb 14, 2011

Money Mark said:
You equate doing nothing as a negative. Doing nothing is doing nothing......nothing is nothing, not positive and not negative. Again, doing nothing is nothing.

Complete the trail then, I guess......but completing the trail WILL NOT "put a lot of the concerns to rest". We have established that user directed trail sections / routes are not to be controlled. Correct?

In my eyes, doing nothing is negative...mike said it, it's the volunteers out there trying to maintain what little we have that helps keep what little we have..no matter how futile it seems.
True, User-directed routes will not end....but I will not just give up.
And ok I divert, completing the trail won't put alot of concerns to rest...that's just the optimism in me...:awesomework:

ain'tstuckjustresting · Feb 14, 2011

Mark I don't really understand your argument. You weren't there to assist in the logs being placed so the only time of yours being wasted is by you posting these ignorant and pointless comments.

You know damn well that you can't just change a trail route without permission from DNR. The Asshats do it all the time I know, but they don't care of the consequences.

You also know that moving large boulders into place takes planning and money.

You also know that if responsible users don't make an attempt to block the swale and it continues to be used as a bypass there is a very real chance DNR will close access until the spring work parties start.

WTF man?

Money Mark · Feb 14, 2011

zukkev said:
..no matter how futile it is.

:;:booo:

Volunteers are necessary, I'm not debating that.

But.....ORV workparty group leaders allowing volunteer hours to be wasted with the unnecessary is something I will debate.

boardbysled · Feb 14, 2011

Money Mark said:
More detail....turn those 4 words into 100.

Damn it man I'm trying to do homework!:flipoff:

What I was thinking was using the logs and standing them up so they are like "trees" or posts.

Several ways to do this. Use post hole diggers, but that might be a bitch with all the roots and shallow soil.

Dig a trench with the mini, stand the logs up in it, then backfill.

Sharpen the end of a log with a chainsaw and push it into the ground with the mini.

We could also do this to "tighten" a trail up, meaning make it a tight trail by adding a few of these to act as "trees"

If they needed more support at the base, throw a few bags of quickcrete in the hole, or get creative with the chainsaw, make an "inverted T" or even an X and bury the top part of the T (or X) in the ground.

The post method may work well in the swale area because I believe that the soil is pretty deep.

But, I do agree with your point Mark, not all bypasses need to be blocked off. I do think this one does.

Money Mark · Feb 14, 2011

ain'tstuckjustresting said:
WTF man?

I'm not try to convince you of anything. You're not a group leader. I'm trying to open the eyes of the group leaders. Your eyes will be opened only after their eyes are.

Binder · Feb 14, 2011

Money Mark said:
Complete the trail then, I guess......but completing the trail WILL NOT "put a lot of the concerns to rest". We have established that user directed trail sections / routes are not to be controlled. Correct?

Who is "we".........When the trail is done there should be no reason fro anyone to go off trail. The plan is to make it interesting for modified rigs and still passable to others as well.
We knew last fall that when the ground thawed there could be a problem here. I've not seen it in some time but it seems only a temporary fix is needed.

Binder · Feb 14, 2011

Money Mark said:
:;:booo:

Volunteers are necessary, I'm not debating that.

But.....ORV workparty group leaders allowing volunteer hours to be wasted with the unnecessary is something I will debate.

Why do you feel the work would be wasted?...I'm just trying to catch up.

zukkev · Feb 14, 2011

Money Mark said:
:;:booo:

Volunteers are necessary, I'm not debating that.

But.....ORV workparty group leaders allowing volunteer hours to be wasted with the unnecessary is something I will debate.

And that's fine....but as an example, these attempts were made by folks who are out there wheeling, and take the time (a couple hrs maybe) out of their day to make an attempt to block a bypass so as to do their part in trying to maintain what little we have (I know, redundant, meh)... NO 'group leader' requested they take said time out of their day to do so...they volunteered to do so of their own free will....

Binder · Feb 14, 2011

zukkev said:
And that's fine....but as an example, these attempts were made by folks who are out there wheeling, and take the time (a couple hrs maybe) out of their day to make an attempt to block a bypass so as to do their part in trying to maintain what little we have (I know, redundant, meh)... NO 'group leader' requested they take said time out of their day to do so...they volunteered to do so of their own free will....

On that note......People taking time out of their wheeling day is commendable but be certain that you're doing the right thing. Has anyone asked the DNR to make sure they don't want the trail temporarily changed?

zukkev · Feb 14, 2011

Binder said:
Why do you feel the work would be wasted?...I'm just trying to catch up.

And where would the time be better spent??? I'm curious...
Is it to work on getting more trail? Yeah, I'll buy that, but the current trails need to be maintained (be it rocking, blocking bypasses in an attempt to keep the trail in its original path, whatever)....if that doesn't happen....

pokey · Feb 14, 2011

zukkev said:
I don't want to mess up the latest Walker thread....Can a mod move some of the latest posts over here please?!?
There was basically a bunch of discussion regarding the re-route, and the need for bypasses. The problem with the one in question is forestry and DNR does not want tracks running up the swale due to its proximity...
The design intent was for a harder section of trail, but still passable with lesser-equipped rigs. Granted,a small part of it has evolved to a more difficult section, but the rest is still very passable by such a vehicle (been there, seen it..)....There was some discussion of a bypass the last time we were up there (2wks ago), but unfortunately we can't move forward with anything until such time as (1) it's ok'd, and (2) weather permits...
Until then, we are to stick to the original path of the trail.

Done and done but it did screw up the post order :booo: And Mark if I wanted to delete your posts I would have done it there as well. Stay in line and on topic and you will have nothing to cry about :awesomework:

dirtygoat · Feb 14, 2011

Logs rarely work to block...

Either build a solid by-pass or close it down with stumps...

Money Mark · Feb 14, 2011

zukkev said:
...they volunteered to do so of their own free will....

I'll feel better when you conform that YOU yourself won't be suggesting blockades as a solution to by-passes. Break the cycle of misappropriated volunteer hours.

My concern is not with the random volunteers, I'm concerned with the direction group leaders will give them for the next work party, and the next.....and so on.

Money Mark · Feb 14, 2011

pokey said:
Stay in line and on topic and you will have nothing to cry about :awesomework:

No need to threat. No need to insult.

zukkev · Feb 14, 2011

Binder said:
On that note......People taking time out of their wheeling day is commendable but be certain that you're doing the right thing. Has anyone asked the DNR to make sure they don't want the trail temporarily changed?

As a matter of fact yes, it was brought up at the DNR meeting, and the answer is yes they wanted the swale blocked from use....It turned out that some of the WIOR crew were going up to wheel, and volunteered to take some time from their day...

Binder · Feb 14, 2011

Money Mark said:
I'll feel better when you conform that YOU yourself won't be suggesting blockades as a solution to by-passes. Break the cycle of misappropriated volunteer hours.

My concern is not with the random volunteers, I'm concerned with the direction group leaders will give them for the next work party, and the next.....and so on.

There are limited materials which could possibly be used for a blockade. Problem being none of them are very likely to work. Logs won't stop anyone but they will let the honest people know which way to go...Kinda like a lock keeping honest people honest....

Binder · Feb 14, 2011

zukkev said:
As a matter of fact yes, it was brought up at the DNR meeting, and the answer is yes they wanted the swale blocked from use....It turned out that some of the WIOR crew were going up to wheel, and volunteered to take some time from their day...

Perfect!:awesomework:...So what's the problem?